" Enough with the socialism Mr. Clayson. You really don't understand Americans do you? Just more fear mongering gibberish, plus the same old examples of dictators and communists regimes that have absolutely NOTHING to do with what is going on in this country.

Pathetic, and beneath someone who has been given an important forum like a weekly column in a newspaper.

It is a waste time to pick apart the points Mr. Clayson attempts to make. It is simply easier and just as accurate to say they are all wrong.

I have said this before, I really don't think Mr. Clayson believes most of what he writes in these columns, that or he is truly unqualified to teach at a major state university. "

" What a sad last gasp attempt to swing a couple Courier readers. This socialism meme is THE definition of a straw man argument. An attempted return to prosperity must mean socialism, y'all!
Socialism is not bringing spending power back to the middle class. Nor is it reigning in corporate influence over government and creating more affordable health care like nearly every other developed country in the world.
If socialism is building more opportunities for American citizens to go to school and seniors to afford necessary drugs than so is taking my tax dollars and starting botched foreign wars or maintaining expensive pet projects like the GOP has done so prolifically the past 8 years.
This is just another pathetic conservative movement war on something and for one of the first times I can remember, the public isn't buying it wholesale.
Add this to the list of:
Jim Crow laws, McCarthyism, War On Drugs, war on illegal immigrants, war on flippin' rock music (started by a Dem I know but still with a bible belt neocon philosophy), war on all Muslims, witch hunts to make everyone a sex offender (see the 18 year old in Georgia who went to prison for sexual contact with a 17 year old), war against gays, war against science, war against everything we conservatives don't agree with because we couldn't get dates in high school.
All of the above are borne of neocon "principles".
The ends justifies the means.
Give tax cuts to the people who need them the least and throw more citizens in prison. What a wonderful philosophy.
Were we a socialist country in the mid 90's, when we were enjoying one of our strongest economies in U.S. history? So why the narrative now? Has the Republican way worked the past 1.5 decades? You know, given that they were in power all that time and here we sit with a record number of foreclosures and stagnated living wages. This is just another pathetic, sorry smear attempt by the GOP to try to cling to that last bit of power.

The only freedom the cowardly, chickenhawk neocon comprehends is economic freedom.

Hey Hetfield, Xdfred, Cire, Think, Panther88, Coalplant, Truthseeker, Newswatcher, Steady, Doesanyonecare, Clayson, Avee......November 4th.
See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya! "

" And of course, there are no solutions offered by Clayson relative to the situation our country is in, are there Phil?
It's just straight up scorched Earth policy. Even though the our banking system and housing market are in dire straits, let's just keep trying to rally people to dig a bigger hole. In our narrow minded, neoconservative way.

Pathetic. (Blanking) pathetic. "

" WOW! What a cry baby.

Time to take the republican nipple away from Prof. Clayson. "

" Who benefits from Socialism? The uneducated, the lazy and those who have no idea of how to run their own business and need someone to give them a job instead of making one. Ford & GM on the verge of bankruptcy, Maytag is going belly up. Where you liberals going to work when you tax the “Big Corporations” out of business? The Democrats are made up of those that would die without government and their free food stamps and welfare and the housing projects. America was great in the 50’s but JFK & LBJ shot that all to He**. Now look at who’s taking over. Enjoy it as it will be short lived. The cow is dry and the last drops are going to China & Mexico. "

" You are right chester11, this week Prof. Clayson gives us a huge list of "straw men".

Using socialism to create fear in voters, reminds me of the Bush campaign using terror to strike fear in Americans.

I think I just got more stupid after reading this weeks Clayson. "

" American socialism doesn't work, eh? Better tell that to our current president and treasury secretary. They just spent untold billions of dollars federalizing the insurance banking sector, including a buyout of AIG, as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And who can forget the now-promised $700,000,000,000.00 for the greedy Wall Street bankers? Yep, all this the work of.... a republican president! "

" clayson is dead on and barack hussein obama is realing from his socialist dialogue! spread it around all right. he has done nothign but spread it around his entire adult life. his high school days were spent spreading around the one hitter!

liberals demand socialism because they dont have the inclination to do it themselves, to take responsibility for their kids, to blame those in better economic conditions then themselves. GET TO WORK! do something. stop whining about your lot in life.

CF thinkg bush created fannie failings. not so. bush demanded more regulation in 2003 when barney frank was out spewing how great fannie was and that barney would never bail him out. i disagree completely with the liberal policy of bailing out the banking industry. i also think bush failed in supporting it. but barney, pelosi, dodd and the rest of the libs own congress. in reality they did not need one republican vote, but of course they needed them all!

socialism is evil, it does not work and it will fail if barack hussein obama has his way.

what will happen? BHO will try to negotiate with terrorists. he likes the hamas, they like him(they know how easy it will be to attack us.) al qaeda will be allowed to regroup and strengthen. Biden himself promises we will be attacked again BECAUSE barack hussein obama is not ready. Biden knows BHo has no idea how to handle these yahoos, and biden hopes he will be given the keys.

ALso, BHO will continue to destroy our economy with massive tax raises. he will allow bush tax cuts to expire in 1 yr, and will not give the middel class more relief. He WILL raise taxes on every wage earner in this country. guaranteed. when has a liberal every promised something in an election and then not flipped?

what else? barack hussein obama will continue to lower our values on life and liberty. he will allow more abortion rights. he will try to rewrite our constitution to allow gays to have gay kids, to allow murderers and rapists more rights then their victims. he will allow the do-nothings the ability to earn more money at the cost to society.

why would bho hire the fools who ran fannie into the ground? why would BHO hang out with terrorists. on 09-11 ayers said he was sorry he didnt bomb more in the US! shameful. Why didnt BHO take the agreed upon campaign financing? why wont BHO disclose who is large anonymous donars are? (hamas) why would BHO allow his own brother and aunt to live in squaler when he promises to help everyone else?

Why would barack hussein obama stay in a racist church for 20+ years. listening to racists threats from his good friend and rev. wright. why would BHO pay him 20k to do it?

Rezko, Acorn, socialist party in the 90's...Way to many questions about the golden child for America.

Socialism and barack hussein obama are not right for america. not now, not ever.

Vote conservative and vote out every congressman who voted for the bailout! "

" it seems mr. clayson does not understand the difference between communism and socialism. also, he continues to try to equate socialism with fascism even though they are two entirely different political systems. "

" As POTUS, Obama would:
Weaken our military, wave the white flag of surrender in Iraq.
Allow the demise of Israel.
Give more handouts to those who don't want to work, through his Spread the Wealth Plan.
Divide our country into the 'haves and have-nots'.
Bolster the growth and impact of the Islamic movement through Louis F and his other buddies.
Socialize our medical system.
Deflate the spirit and success of our country's Small Business Owners.
Tank our economy with his overzealous spending plan.
Smoke in the White House (sorry, I had to put that in, it irritates me. He couldn't even quit smoking, he thinks THAT'S TOUGH?) OMG!
He would also have an On-the-job Training as POTUS, as did GW Bush because he has no Leadership experience! Like how that worked out?! "

" Democrat control of congress the past 2 years shows that a big CHANGE is really necessary, but not the change in your pocket that Obama promises to leave. Why is congress approval at 10 percent? Duh! The President doesn't control the economy, the BUYERS do. But there are certainly a lot of examples to read on here of our failed public school system. Tell me in about six months how much you love the American Idol President. "

" This week, Prof. Clayson supposedly tells us why Socialism is bad for us. He then spends perfectly good newsprint and ink to tell us that Communism and dictators are really, really bad for anybody. (I just wish that someone at the Courier would tell Prof. Clayson that unless he can at least make his diatribes internally consistent, he won’t get published anymore.)

Of course, the topic comes up because of the impending victory of Barack Obama at the polls which those on the hard right, following McCain’s lead, tell us is going to bring us socialism.

It’s not, of course, but Prof. Clayson never lets facts stand in the way of more dyspeptic ramblings.

As I have pointed out here. ad nauseam, the following list of equivalences is NOT true:

Communism = socialism = progressivism = liberalism = Democratic policy = Authoritarianism = Fascism = any other idea that Prof. Clayson doesn’t like

Unfortunately, some people on this website have publicly stated that they agree with that equivalence list. To that list might be added “= any other new idea that seems vaguely threatening just because it’s new.” For them, I need to initially respond, “Lighten up. The rest of your fellow Americans aren’t out to get you. And, just maybe, you will eventually have to admit, albeit perhaps begrudgingly, that the result will be better for all of us as well as you personally.”

I’d like to tackle a few of the illogical arguments that Prof. Clayson peddles. First, he makes the obligatory reference to the “nanny state” and how it’s going to corrupt us all. It needs to be observed that he mentions the “nanny state” four times in about as many paragraphs. He apparently believes that repeating pejorative labels makes them true.

The fact is that “nanny state” is a pejorative label and nothing more. Prof. Clayson seems that we’re all as free as those who ventured into the frontier two hundred years ago. They were independent of all influences of others only because they were alone. And, as soon as there were others, they bound themselves into a society and established a government.

The ultimate example is that of when the Pilgrims arrived off Massachusetts in the Mayflower. Before anyone set a foot ashore they signed the Mayflower Compact to “covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick.”

My point is that unlike Prof. Clayson’s claim that we’re all better off if we stand alone, our history demonstrates conclusively that in the real world people know they are better off if they combine together for mutual interests. Humans aren’t loners as Prof. Clayson urges. We are social beings. The recognition of that fact is best stated by John Dunne in his “Meditation XVII” that says:

“No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

Already, we live in a society where our government has ensured that all kinds of services are collectively available to everyone. Today, anyone wanting to be “his own man” must sleep in a house without electricity, gas, or phone. He may not venture out on the roads built for our common use. He must reject the common defense. He must eschew all inspection of our food and facilities to make sure they are safe. He must assume that no one will care for him when he is old or disabled.

The term “nanny state” is balderdash. Saying that he lives in a “firefighter state” is more accurate. He may become a hermit in his house. And other people will pretty much leave him alone. However, if his house starts to burn down, the society will send fire fighters to put out the fire and to make sure he is all right. And the firefighters will come even if he protests that he’d rather do it all alone. In that, the society that sent the firefighters is smarter than the hermit who wants to always go it alone.

So, now we are going to readjust where the sphere of going it alone and working in common with others is going to be readjusted. We’ve found that our health care doesn’t work real well when we’re on our own to figure out how to pay for it. So, we’re going to work out a system where no one goes without good health care and we somehow pay for in common. It’s but a minor change in a 225-year long trail of adjustments between the private and the common. Get used to it.

There are a few other points of error in Prof. Clayson’s column that I’d like to give brief responses to.

He says, “Socialism does not work as advertised. It has been implemented by Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Mao, Zhou Enlai, and Kim Jong-Il.” But, they were all implementing vicious forms of Communism and not mere Socialism. No matter what Prof. Clayson says, they are not the same. Sen. Joe McCarthy thought they were the same too, but that claim is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

To top it, he adds, “If you don't want free markets, but don't want communism, then you could call for a third way. That also has been done and gave the world Mussolini and Hitler.”

“Third way?”

The alternative between Socialism and Democracy is Fascism?

That claim is just too dumb to require rebuttal.

Next, he says, “Germany, once the most advanced country in the world, was split down the middle into East and West Germany and with what result? Korea, a land of peasants, was split down the middle. The free market side is a prosperous modern nation. The socialist half is a hellhole with starving people watched night and day for the least sign of rebellion.”

Again, Prof. Clayson proposes a false dichotomy. West Germany and South Korea are not and never have been the pinnacles of free-market economies. And right next door to Germany are about all the other countries of Europe that mix some free-market capitalism with common action under the respective states.

I suppose that we’d all better get used to Prof. Clayson’s hostility to the future under an Obama Administration. Rather than admit that he’s just been beaten and then being quiet, Prof. Clayson will protest the results no matter how successful all the rest of humanity thinks the changes under Obama turn out to be. To all of them, Prof. Clayson will note that his record is uniform. Through success after success, Prof. Clayson will have opposed them all. "

" After listening to the political bias of the main stream media, I find it refreshing to hear Claysons point of view. Im always amazed of how intolerant the party that prides themselves on tolerance are towards opposing view points. Unfortunately I think come Nov 5th Americans will find themselves without the president we need but rather with the one we deserve. Years from now under an Obama presidency when things are worse, the libs will still be under the spell of the messiah and will continue to blame the Bush administration for their ills. By the way Chester11 please feel free to add me to your list of socialist enemies. And as for Independent Im positive you didnt get any stupider from reading Claysons article. "

" Two Thumbs Up for mantis!! Well Said! "

" I'll vote for freedom. Keep the Change. "

" I've got one more thing to say. We've recently seen $750 billion appropriated to pull the bacon of the financial industry out of the fire. This is about the umpteenth time that public money has been spent for that purpose. Not that long ago, all the Savings and Loans were bailed out. And there are financial crisis, bubbles, recessions, depressions, etc. going all the way back to the founding of the country. In all of them, the government provided aid.

It is, of course, socialism of a sort when failure in the financial industry is public business.

What is amounts to is that we already have socialism for the very rich in this country. But, perish the though that the middle class or poor ever get aid. To do so, it is claimed, would promote socialism and that is morally objectionable.

Just more baloney. "

" Cross - that first post was outstanding. Since Clayson has said he doesn't read the comments here you should email it to him. You should also email it to any other Courier staffer who then oughta place it on tomorrow's Opinion page as a retort to Mr. Professor's repetitive, fact deficient, meandering tantrums.

Indeed, you'll get criticized by the illiterate pack of hyenas out here since they'll never admit that you can write circles around them, and their circular logic, and all they'll be able to do is call you a "Marxist" and a "lib".

Yea, this socialism thing is the new wave smear. One smacking of hand wrung desperation.

It seriously is all the right wing have left. "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 2, 2008 2:46 PM:

" I've got one more thing to say. We've recently seen $750 billion appropriated to pull the bacon of the financial industry out of the fire. This is about the umpteenth time that public money has been spent for that purpose. Not that long ago, all the Savings and Loans were bailed out. And there are financial crisis, bubbles, recessions, depressions, etc. going all the way back to the founding of the country. In all of them, the government provided aid


cross, poppeycock! why did you party not only create this mess then push for the bailout? go ahead and post the vote by party. why did you libs do this? you the great ' we want our poor helped' but then you give it to the banks? and while bush is wrong for helping, he has no hand in voting on it. and anyways if I were the typical minion on the left, bush is an idiot so...

answer that cross! answer that!

socialism is what it is. barack hssein obama promises it, he says it he wants it, his party says it. I cant remember the dimwitted liberal female who said it a few months ago! she is an idiot from california. go figure.

socialism is just that. sorry you hate it being called what it is. call it welfarism or wealthshareism, or spreaditism, or stealitism. it is the same thing.


why are you libs out there right now writing a bill that will take our 401ks and give us back 3& interest? why are you out on your death beds with teddie k and writing a socialist health plan system. say it isnt so ism?

socialism will not help your welfare recipients on the left. it will only bring the middle down to that level.

nice plan, for a golden man, from flim flam land. barack hussein obama. he is more than just a funny name. or is it less? "

" Does anyone even read Crosses rants about Clayson anymore? "

" Leo - I think a better question is whether or not anyone reads the garbage hetfield and xdfred spew each week. Same old, same old stuff that has been disproved and discredited long ago.

mantis - speaking of the president we deserve rather than the president we need - you mean like the last 8 years. If there was a more pathetic creature that could have been hoisted on the American public that George Bush - I don't know who it could it have been. Failed upward all his life. Also - intolerance? Hey it's Mr. Clayson's right to his opinion - but for an educated person he writes the stupidist and knowingly false columns. My point if you are going to be given this great opportunity and forum, try to take it seriously. Mr. Clayson sure doesn't. "

" Leo, my answer is NO! "

" Speading of socialism and the nanny state, I guess Mr. Clayson must be also talking about Alaska. Taking from the corporations to give every citizen a handout. Meanwhile the politicians make themselves richer at the public trough. Senator Stevens recently convicted. Gov. Palin using her expense account to enrich herself. And as mayor, getting a sweetheart deal with the contractors that built the new arena there to build a new home for herself.

Yea, that must be what Mr. Clayson was talking about. "

" Clayson's article = 734 words.
Cross' responses = 1,296 words.

How self important do you have to be to write a response longer than the original article? It was a beautiful day outside but once again Cross spent his time writing a 1,296 word reply that very few will read. Sad. It's hard to decide if he's addicted to Clayson or obsessed with him. Did I read his 1,296 word response? Heck no. Like I said, It was a beautiful day today. "

" I think he nailed this one dead on. If you dont agree with it, I bet Clayson wont kick you all off his airplane because you dont endorse him...I bet he wont tell you no more interviews because you asked tough questions....and I bet he wont flat out lie to you. "

" Phil wrote on Nov 2, 2008 7:01 PM:
" Speading of socialism and the nanny state, I guess Mr. Clayson must be also talking about Alaska....."

Exactly what I was thinking, dude.
Alaskan politics meets pretty much every element of this manufactured idea of socialism these people keep crying about.
But let's see if that will be acknowledged by any of our neocon posters here. I reckon that'll be a no, since it would require a shred of integrity. "

" This just in from Cedar Rapids: Gazette backs McCain for President
KWWL Reports:
"The Cedar Rapids Gazette's editorial cites the need for seasoned leadership with country on the brink of a major economic recession."
"At a time like this, we cannot succumb to panic," The Gazette wrote in its endorsement. "We must not throw wrenches in our path to economic recovery. And as the Great Depression taught us, the worst remedy for this country's problems would be higher taxes for individuals and businesses."
End Quote!
Thank you Gazette for your WISDOM and Thank you KWWL for your courage to put it on the news!
Voters, this is what you need to remember Tuesday when you vote! Use your head and vote for Senator McCain! "

" Again I ask. what has barack hussein obama done in his life to earn the presidency? what exactly experience does he offer? dont post about his ridiculous harvard experience. his present votes in Il senate, or his two books. we all know about those.

What has he done? What has he delivered other than words?

Dont post about mcsame or bush. only what BHO brings to the table. Not hope, not word. what he has done.

this should be good. "

" Rooster spends his nice day counting words that he doesn't even read? "

" This...is...brilliant! I am sharing this all over the place. So well put and no minced words.

I can really think of nothing to add.
1733530
Professor Clayson's columns are the highlight of the week. It should be published nationwide. "

" This column is simply brilliant.

Stunningly accurate, blunt and clear.

This was a better topic to address today than a plea to undecided voters who if they had any core at all would not be undecided.

The choice could not be more clear. There is NO point on which Obama is better or closer to right than Senator McCain. Obama is an empty suit spouting empty promises. His platform has all the substance of a pillowcase full of trick-or-treat candy - artificial, saccharin, nauseating after a certain amount and absolutely no nutritional value. Not to mention that the more you eat it up, the worse it is for you.


I am sharing it all over the place, and "

" Here's the transcript via Free Republic from his talk to the San Francisco Chronicle in January 2008:
no bama is talking. noone notices.


"Let me sort of describe my overall policy.

What I've said is that we would put a cap and trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there.

I was the first to call for a 100% auction on the cap and trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted down caps that are being placed, imposed every year.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.

That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches.

The only thing I've said with respect to coal, I haven't been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.

It's just that it will bankrupt them."


and this

"The problem is not technical, uh, and the problem is not mastery of the legislative intricacies of Washington. The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry. That requires them understanding what is at stake. Uh, and climate change is a great example.
You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.
They — you — you can already see what the arguments will be during the general election. People will say, “Ah, Obama and Al Gore, these folks, they’re going to destroy the economy, this is going to cost us eight trillion dollars,” or whatever their number is. Um, if you can’t persuade the American people that yes, there is going to be some increase in electricity rates on the front end, but that over the long term, because of combinations of more efficient energy usage, changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance, but also technology improving how we can produce clean energy, the economy would benefit.
If we can’t make that argument persuasively enough, you — you, uh, can be Lyndon Johnson, you can be the master of Washington. You’re not going to get that done.
"

no new taxes. but massive increase in energy costs. bankrupting coal business.

no bama is a panderer to all those who have no clue! liberals!!

palin has more intelligence in her little pinkie this this man has in his messiah like body. "

" Where are all the Obama signs? I was out yesterday and the yards were empty. Even known Democrats don't have one. I think what people tell the polls is one thing. I think Dick Morris called it right. Obama will be in shock when he loses. "

" Indy,

Didn't count them either - there's programs that do that for you. If you were computer literate you would know that. The whole post took 3 minutes on Sunday night - after I cleaned fish. It was a good day. "

" Excellent article from professor Clayton. The south side shyster is trying to buy votes and hoodwink everybody. I don't want or need a nanny. Cross and Phil, get your wet nurse on somebody else's dime. Not mine.
And what does this way of government do to our culture? Destroys what work ethic we have. Barack Hussein Obama, no thanks.

Molon labe. "

" chester11 wrote on Nov 2, 2008 8:07 AM:

"......Socialism is not bringing spending power back to the middle class. Nor is it reigning in corporate influence over government and creating more affordable health care like nearly every other developed country in the world...." Nope. It's just taking. The party of take. Take away. You have some, I'll take it away.

"...If socialism is building more opportunities for American citizens to go to school and seniors to afford necessary drugs..." It's not. That's just the promise for the lollipops among us.
"...than so is taking my tax dollars and starting botched foreign wars or maintaining expensive pet projects like the GOP has done so prolifically the past 8 years...." Excessive government spending is wrong, regardless of who does it. How about we follow the Constitution?
"....This is just another pathetic conservative movement war on something and for one of the first times I can remember, the public isn't buying it wholesale.
Add this to the list of:
Jim Crow laws, McCarthyism, War On Drugs, war on illegal immigrants, war on flippin' rock music (started by a Dem I know but still with a bible belt neocon philosophy), war on all Muslims, witch hunts to make everyone a sex offender (see the 18 year old in Georgia who went to prison for sexual contact with a 17 year old), war against gays, war against science, war against everything we conservatives don't agree with because we couldn't get dates in high school...." Speaking of strawmen. What war against gays? What war against science? Who wrote and passed the Jim Crowe laws? Your sense of history is warped.
"...The ends justifies the means...." That's what the gun grabbers and wealth stealers always say, isn't it?
"...Give tax cuts to the people who need them the least and throw more citizens in prison. What a wonderful philosophy...." Vs giving tax -cuts- to people who don't pay taxes at all. What a concept. Please define need? Don't criminals belong in prison? Rapists? Murderers? Child molesters?What should we do with them? "

" yard signs? quit living in the past. yard signs are like a landline phone at your house or a horse and buggy in your garage.

while i love dick morris (he is in my political junkie hall of fame with karl rove, peggy noonan, david axelrod, etc.), i'm going to respectfully disagree with his prediction. "

" One more day until the American people elect Obama as our next President! Finally, a man who will respect the law and the Constitution, someone who will restore honor and integrity to the Oval Office! I can't wait! "

" Time for a civics refresher: Who's in charge of Congress right now? Which branch of the government controls the country's purse strings? President or Congress? We were told just a couple years ago Fannie and Freddie were in great shape. Guess not. Ultimately, where is that $750 billion going to come from? "

" cf1981 wrote on Nov 3, 2008 9:27 AM:

" One more day until the American people elect Obama as our next President! Finally, a man who will respect the law and the Constitution, someone who will restore honor and integrity to the Oval Office! I can't wait! " Why does Barack Hussein Obama want to take our guns away? He PRETENDS to respect the Constitution.

• Reality. Obama voted to allow the prosecution of people who use a firearm for self-defense in their frickin’ homes. (Illinois Senate, S.B. 2165, vote 20. 3/25/04)
• Reality. Obama supported increasing taxes on firearms and ammunition by 500%. That means the $500 Ruger you want to buy that currently has an excise tax of $55 would skyrocket to $330 tax. (Chicago Defender, 12/13/99). But that shouldn’t bug you, Obama backers, because you’re all about “spreading the wealth,” aren’t you?
• Reality. Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry. (United States Senate, S. 397, vote 219, 7/29/05).
• Reality. Obama wants to reimpose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban. (Illinois State Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes, 10/21/04).
• Reality. Obama endorsed a ban on all handguns. (Independent voters of Illinois/Independent precinct organization general candidate questionnaire, 9/9/96; Politico, 3/31/08).
• Reality. Obama opposes the Right to Carry laws. (Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 4/02/08; Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04).
• Reality. Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting. (United States Senate, S.397, 7/29/05).
• Reality. Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration. (“Fact Check: No News In Obama’s Consistent Record.” Obama campaign website, 12/11/07).
• Reality. Obama voted to limit gun purchases to one per month. (Illinois state senate, H.B. 2579, vote 34, 5/16/03).
• Reality. Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia. (United States Senate vote 245, 9/29/2005 and vote 2, 1/31/2006 and Saddleback Forum, 8/16/2008).
• Reality. Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen. (Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, 3/13/2003).
• Reality. Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership. (Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, 9/9/1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, 3/31/2008). "

" Barack Hussein Obama- Good for the country.



Just not ours. "

" Barack hussein obama-good for the people.

The people of the former Soviet Socialist Republic. "

" Wow Rooster, that's over 200 words a minute! With time left over to run word counting software, good job. "

" reality. barack obama will be president-elect barack obama in about 36 hours. "

" xdfred @ Nov 3, 2008 9:56 AM provided a list of how Obama has taken "anti-gun" actions -- from the pro-gun lobby's point of view.

Few people would think there is anything wrong with the list. It's certainly pointless from my point of view.

Why the pro-gun lobby thinks that legislating against guns will have any priority at all, with all the other problems that need to be addressed, is a mystery. "

" Obama's words on coal just hit VA. Good luck now Obama. I love that the media (Yahoo~ Obama maybe in trouble) is making excuses as to what happened. Yahoo running MCcain doing better than expected. Yahooooo from the great Socialist State of CA. "

" McCain is doing "better than expected"? What was he "expected" to do, curl into the fetal position and cry through Election Day?

Actually, I wouldn't put it past him to do exactly that, given the state of the race as of today. Here comes President-elect Obama! "

" From the Associated Press wire today:

"Nov 3rd, 2008 | SANTA BARBARA, Calif. -- A masked gunman waving an American flag and a handgun on a freeway overpass surrendered to police Monday after forcing a traffic shutdown for hours."

Just another handgun at work in America. "

" It is socialism to give a tax break to the middle class. What is it when the repugs give them to the wealthy? "

" Hey cross, you may want to Google "Happy Land" social club fire and see what a nut with a gallon of gas can do. Guns are far over rated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire "

" cf1981, you have now crossed the line into silliness with your:
"Here comes President-elect Obama!"
What kind of a goof head writes like this when the polls are tightening?
You make it all the more sweet for an upset to happen.
It's happened before, remember? "

" The handgun in that story did nothing, Cross. The nutjob holding it did. "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 3, 2008 11:42 AM:

" xdfred @ Nov 3, 2008 9:56 AM provided a list of how Obama has taken "anti-gun" actions -- from the pro-gun lobby's point of view.

Few people would think there is anything wrong with the list. It's certainly pointless from my point of view.

Why the pro-gun lobby thinks that legislating against guns will have any priority at all, with all the other problems that need to be addressed, is a mystery. " My thoughts exactly on pushing same sex 'marriage', but here we are. "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 3, 2008 11:42 AM:

" xdfred @ Nov 3, 2008 9:56 AM provided a list of how Obama has taken "anti-gun" actions -- from the pro-gun lobby's point of view.

Few people would think there is anything wrong with the list. It's certainly pointless from my point of view...." The list is fine. And it's pointless because you don't get the point. We have an amendment in our Constitution that says no to gun grabbers that socialists like Obama ignore. That's the point. "

" Ever been to a country where the public is not allowed guns but the govt is?
I suggest you go there, cross. Perhaps you could stay for a while, too. "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 3, 2008 2:42 PM:

" From the Associated Press wire today:

"Nov 3rd, 2008 | SANTA BARBARA, Calif. -- A masked gunman waving an American flag and a handgun on a freeway overpass surrendered to police Monday after forcing a traffic shutdown for hours."

Just another handgun at work in America. " Did the police force the shutdown? I doubt the masked man could have. How can an inanimate object do any work? Try again. "

" It has taken some time, but cross you and I are on board about gun control. It is time that everyone else wakes up.

We have so much sympathy for every group out there, but where is the representation for the criminal group? It is getting tough out there for criminals. It is not fair that someone chooses the profession of a criminal and has to face the possibly of being shot or killed when they go out to do their job.

Allowing citizens to carry guns create a hostile work environment for criminals. Criminals work hard and put their lives on the line each and every time they attempt to murder, rape, abduct or assault a member of society. Nobody should have to work under those conditions. They desperately need your help.

With your help, there may finally come a day when violent criminals can have their way w/out the fear, anxiety or stress caused by knowing there's a possibility their victim might be armed.

Please show your support and join cross by voting stronger ant-gun legislation because criminals prefer and deserve unarmed citizens. "

" Steady wrote on Nov 3, 2008 3:26 PM:

" It has taken some time, but cross you and I are on board about gun control. It is time that everyone else wakes up.

We have so much sympathy for every group out there, but where is the representation for the criminal group? It is getting tough out there for criminals....."
You're right, Steady, criminals like these:

http://www.kcra.com/news/17869255/detail.html

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/9C58494B45470714862574F3006D0CA6?OpenDocument

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/33637599.html

Tough not to feel sorry for these perps, huh, Cross? Don't worry, Barack Hussein Obama will make their chosen careers and recreational activities much much safer. "

" All the gun ban talk is irrelevant anyway. Has everyone already forgotten the recent Supreme Court ruling? Trust me, your guns are secure. "

" Indy,

All those years on a manual typewriter paid off. Thanks for noticing. "

" You people that think Clayson is a quack. I really feel sorry for you. You are the ones that wouldn't know the difference between socialism and capitalism if it slapped you in the face. All I can say is if Obama is elected. You better keep you eyes and ears open because it is going to slap you in the face. Then your going to be angry at the government that you elected. But that won't change you because you are then going to be looking at the very same government that your elected and will be asking for them to help you out of the mess you are in. Or your going to ask the liberal media why it didn't tell you this or that. You have less then 24 hrs to choose. Choose wisely. Just think back to all the people Obama has associtated himself with, Rezko, Wright, Ayers, PLO terrorists, Illegal aliens, and all the others that have cropped up during the campaign of which he has either distanced himself from or denied knowing. "

" Summary of McCain vs Obama:

McCain will create jobs with his energy plans & tax breaks.

Obama would cost jobs with his tax & spend Spread the Wealth Plan.

McCain will successfully end our war in Iraq and bring our troops home with a victory for us AND Democracy for the Iraqi people.

Obama would stumble around and wave the white flag of surrender before Iraq is secure, OR he'll admit he was lying to America and break his promise to bring the troops home in a few months.

In this time of war and sensitive economy, there is only one clear choice for our next POTUS: McCain! "

" taxpayer @ Nov 3, 2008 2:57 PM asked, "It is socialism to give a tax break to the middle class. What is it when the repugs give them to the wealthy?"

If memory serves, it's called "sound economic policy." "

" why would bho want our guns anyways? him and his pal Wm. Ayers have bombs. Not sure we want to make that trade.

Barack hussein obama will BOMB if elected! he will blow up our economy and blast open a welfare state which was once the greatest country in the world! "

" We can now add "Tom" to the list that includes xdfred, hetfield, Newswatcher, etc. - that are clueless about economics, politics, and character.

Someday you might wake up and join the rest of this country in the world of reality. "

" Cross,

You convienently forgot to mention the part of the story that said "The man agreed to give up after he was allowed to attach a Barack Obama campaign sign and the flag to the overpass railing, said police Sgt. Jim Pfleging." I guess that part of the story didn't fit your agenda. "

" Two socialist/fascist candidates: Obama-bin-lying and McSame-as-Bush.

Great choices. The two party system has duped you all.

Vote for a 3rd party.

Remember-voting for the "lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.

Do not fall into the trap of voting for the evil of two lessers. "

" cf1981:
If BHO is so much of a Contitutionalist, why won't he provide his ACTUAL birth certificate? Is he planning on re-writing the Constitution after he is elected?
See Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution. Anyone pursuant to the Presidency must be a naturalized citizen of the U.S., (that means born here). He was not even vetted by the DNC!!! He was born in Kenya!!! See also www.obamacrimes.com. Obama has been hiding the truth since before the DNC Convention when a lawsuit was brought forth by a Democrat federal attourney from PA, Philip J. Berg addressing just this! The evidence is damning! BHO cannot legally be POTUS!!!
What a mess!!! Thank you, rats!!! We need to hold our elected officals accountable. They ALL took an oath when sworn into office to "defend and protect the Constitution of the United States", as well has our members of our military. God Bless the U.S.A., and Deliver Us John McCain!!! "

" Hey cf1981,
If BHO is such a Constitutionalist, why hasn't he yet provided his actual birth certificate and other credentials?

Is he "hope"ing to re-write the Constitution after he is elected?!?!?

See Article II, section one of the Constitution. Anyone pursuant to the Presidency of the United States must be a naturalized citizen, (that means born in the United States). BHO was born in Kenya!!! He wasn't even properly vetted by the DNC!!! A Democrat former Attourney General for the state of Pennsylvania by the name of Philip J. Berg has filed a lawsuit against BHO and the DNC charging this two weeks before the DNC Convention!!! Now it is before the Supreme Court. From what I've seen, the evidence is pretty damning. Where has the MSM been on this issue?!?!? Oh yeh, HE was the "Chosen One" by the media. What is BHO hiding? Check it out for yourself at www.obamacrimes.com. BHO cannot legally be POTUS!!! What a MESS!!! Thank you, rats!!!

We need to hold our elected officials accountable. When each of those officials were sworn into office, they took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. This same oath is also take by everyone in the military.
The Constitution cannot be re-written to suit BHO!!!

God Bless the U.S.A., and Deliver Us John McCain!!! "

" sure tom ,I'll remember that along with mcain ascociating himself with john hagee along with indefinate stay in Iraq, pre- emptive strikes on Iran, the KBG coment related to vladimere putan made twice on national TV as well as taking sides on the conflict between russia and georgia which should not be our place.Oh, did I mention that georgia has natural gas and oil.I guess he wants us to use theirs as well as our own.and by the way georgia fired the first shots.and whats wrong with sitting down with palistine in an attempt to hammer out a peace agreement between them and isreal? good grief it seems like every time isreal gets a little scratch they take it out on an entire country.oh but it must in your eyes be ok to bulldoze entire settlements with people still inside. If Isreal cant behave then we need to cut their ambilical cord and stop giving them our tax dollars.and that sarah palin is a real catch.never mind that she violated the conflict of interest laws by ruling on a case against her ex brother inlaw.as a judge or goverment official it is forbiden to rule on a case where you have or have had a close relationship with that person either by way of employment,marrige or blood relitive.that rule is in place to present either bias or abuse of power and the fact that she took position on that case is looked upon as leagle misconduct.as a high ranking goverment official it's her job to know better and she could have been subject to a state congressional review and posibly been made to resighn.sorry to say but if she gets away with it once she would go back and do it again.for the record i'm not a big fan of obama but it still apperes that he is the lessor of the two evils. "

" Just read that Kenya is getting ready to have Election Parties, they are all praying that Obama wins the POTUS.

Thought: Just how FAR is Obama's Spread the Wealth Plan going to spread? "

" hfrmark - get real!

By the way, McCain was born in Panama - that is a FACT - the Panama Canal Zone which was land leased to the USA by Panama, but not is NOT the USA.

This in something that is NOT disputed, so I guess he can't be sworn in if he were to somehow win. "

" One more word on the campaign - if senators Obama and Biden had made the same kind of ads and speeches that McCain and Palin had, all we would be hearing now from the Clayson's, the Drudge's, the Limbaugh's, etc., would be how "angry" liberals are. How Obama is another angry black man.

It would be spewing forth in incredible volumes. Yet do we hear a single peep about McCain being an angry old man? About how angry conservatives are all the time?

Nope - not one single word. "

" (return of) joe wrote on Nov 3, 2008 4:14 PM:

" All the gun ban talk is irrelevant anyway. Has everyone already forgotten the recent Supreme Court ruling? Trust me, your guns are secure. " According to you, maybe. "

" cross 1242, when a law abiding legally handgun carrying citizen observes you, your house or family under assault by a criminal, common sense dictates that they will help protect you. But just to not waste time and effort, please post a "gun free zone" bumper sticker on your vehicle and sign in your yard. Then legally armed citizens will not bother you. Just call 911 if you get the chance. "

" Today is going to be a great day for America. HOPE will overcome FEAR. The Democrats will show the GOP the door and will begin the difficult task of rebuilding this broken country. It will be hard work, but it will be tolerable knowing we will have President Obama leading us towards a better tomorrow.

And at the same time, I'm sure McCain and Palin will be drinking cocktails at one of his seven houses, enjoying their newfound unemployment! "

" Phil wrote on Nov 4, 2008 9:57 AM:

" One more word on the campaign - if senators Obama and Biden had made the same kind of ads and speeches that McCain and Palin had, all we would be hearing now from the Clayson's, the Drudge's, the Limbaugh's, etc., would be how "angry" liberals are. How Obama is another angry black man.

It would be spewing forth in incredible volumes. Yet do we hear a single peep about McCain being an angry old man? About how angry conservatives are all the time?

Nope - not one single word. "

So, according to you, pointing out Barack Hussein Obama's many many many shortcomings as well as Joseph Biden's many many many shortcomings is a sign of anger? That's pretty twisted, even for an Obama supporter. "

" cf1981 wrote on Nov 4, 2008 11:39 AM:

" Today is going to be a great day for America. HOPE will overcome FEAR. The Democrats will show the GOP the door and will begin the difficult task of rebuilding this broken country. It will be hard work, but it will be tolerable knowing we will have President Obama leading us towards a better tomorrow.

And at the same time, I'm sure McCain and Palin will be drinking cocktails at one of his seven houses, enjoying their newfound unemployment! " -Yawn- More boring blather. "

" This should make the leftwingers feel better...

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/03/investigator-evidence-palin-violated-ethics-law/ "

" xdfred...care to tell us how they will get your guns when the Supreme Court just recently ruled to protect individual gun ownership? I always knew that little clicked with you, but this verifies it. "

" (return of) joe wrote on Nov 4, 2008 12:24 PM:

" xdfred...care to tell us how they will get your guns when the Supreme Court just recently ruled to protect individual gun ownership? I always knew that little clicked with you, but this verifies it. " So the so called assault weapons ban never happened, the Chicago handgun ban never happened, the DC handgun ban, to which you refer, never happened. And the supreme court does not run this country. Obama seeks to pack the court and attack private gun ownership among other things. He said so himself.

Barack Hussein Obama = terrorist and criminal's best friend. "

" (return of) joe - well we might be lucky and get the assault weapon banned passed again - but the nut jobs will be out in force to try and stop it. A few more restrictions on hand guns wouldn't hurt either.

Of course the nut jobs thinks you should be able to own a bazooka and drive a tank down the road. "

" I'll bet all those people that voted early in PA and all the other coal producing states wish they could take back their vote. Voting early is stupid. All the facts are not in, so how can anyone make an educated choice? Add Grandma to your list of conservatives. Not Republicans, as they are not conservative enough for me. "

" Phil wrote on Nov 4, 2008 4:46 PM:

" (return of) joe - well we might be lucky and get the assault weapon banned passed again - but the nut jobs will be out in force to try and stop it. A few more restrictions on hand guns wouldn't hurt either..." Since they work so well at reducing crime and violence, don't they. Areas with the greatest unConstitutional gun control have the greatest crime. Go figure.

Molon labe "

" That confederate money maybe worth something again. I feel change also about to take place. Bankrupt coal and PA that rust belt of welfare cases. That will also put the railroads out of business and save fuel. It starts "

" Now that the election is over I wonder how long it will be before Obama messes up and the blame is put on Bush. I hope all of you fine Obama loving folks remember that when Bush messed up it was his deal..not Clintons. Same for Obama. Get ready for change folks. What are we going to discuss now that the election is over? Obama...Biden...Pelosi...Reid. That scares the (deleted) out of me. Who would of thought that 7 years ago. "

" Based on what I saw at my voting place we should require voters to pass an IQ test before they can vote. Although that probably would have changed the outcome of the election. "

" Many people in this Country are sick of California and New York deciding who we elect. I really think that time has come for conservatives to have their own Country with their own elected officials. Millions of south of the border “give me this” votes put a socialist in the White House. California is cancer that kills everything it touches. They have killed Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon and Washington and are working on Montana. The California cancer must be put on chemo. "

" think @ Nov 5, 2008 8:39 AM said, "PA that rust belt of welfare cases."

cubbies08 @ Nov 5, 2008 12:19 PM said, "I wonder how long it will be before Obama messes up and the blame is put on Bush."

cubbies08 @ Nov 5, 2008 12:21 PM said, "we should require voters to pass an IQ test before they can vote... that probably would have changed the outcome of the election."

think @ Nov 5, 2008 1:09 PM said, "Many people in this Country are sick of California and New York deciding who we elect. really think that time has come for conservatives to have their own Country."

I'm sorry that you're feeling bad this morning. But, how about suspending the complaining into some decent interval into the Obama Administration. Who knows? Maybe your worst fears are unfounded and you'll find Obama to be everything his supporters say that he'll be. "

" cubbies08 - well since the results show that Obama easily won the majority of college educated voters - I guess your IQ test would have resulted in McCain not winning any states. Several southern states that McCain won might not have had any eligible voters. "

" think - Gee, California and New York didn't seem to bother anyone in 2000 or in 2004.

Conservatives have their own country - its called Mississippi - Alabama - Oklahoma - Kansas. Just go there and join the rednecks - or Utah - go and become a Mormon. "

" From the Great Communicator:

"Who pays the business tax anyway? We do! You can’t tax business. Business doesn’t pay taxes. It collects taxes. And if they can’t be passed on to the customer in the price of the product as a cost of operation, business goes out of business. Now what they’re going to do is make it easier for demagogic politicians–and you’ve got plenty of them in the state legislature–to say to the people, look, we need money for this worthwhile project but we’re not going to tax you, we’re going to tax business, now that we can do it by a one vote margin. So they’ll tax business and the price of the product will go up and the people will blame the storekeeper for the rise in the price of the product, not recognizing that all he’s doing is passing on to them a hidden sales tax.
If people need any more concrete explanation of this, start with the staff of life, a loaf of bread. The simplest thing; the poorest man must have it. Well, there are 151 taxes now in the price of a loaf of bread–it accounts for more than half the of a loaf of bread. It begins with the first tax, on the farmer that raised the wheat. Any simpleton can understand that if that farmer cannot get enough money for his wheat, to pay the property tax on his farm, he can’t be a farmer. He loses his farm. And so it is with the fellow who pays a driver’s license and a gasoline tax to drive the truckload of wheat to the mill, the miller who has to pay everything from social security tax, business license, everything else. He has to make his living over and above those costs. So they all wind up in that loaf of bread. Now an egg isn’t far behind and nobody had to make that. There’s a hundred taxes in an egg by the time it gets to market and you know the chicken didn’t put them there!" "

" Hey Phil that was tried once.Then some jerk tried to tax the States that left. Tax these churches as well. That's crap a church gets off tax free.Besides Cross god will take care of ya........ha ha ha. "

" The college students that voted for Obama will be kicking themselves in the behinds when they can't find jobs after graduating because there will be a tremendous cut back in small businesses that they'll pay the price.

Oh well, live and learn. I doubt I'll be able to hire any of them. I guess you have to be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.

Nice fuzzy feeling for you Obama supporters today, trouble for us all in the next 6 mo - year.
Putin is already testing and Chavez will be scheming, too. "

" As I have been saying all day long,
November 4, 2008......A GREAT DAY for AMERICA. I hope that greedy capitalism will suffer a crippling blow. Let the Common Good be our watchword. "

" Phil @ Nov 5, 2008 2:51 PM said, "Conservatives have their own country - its called Mississippi - Alabama - Oklahoma - Kansas."

Semi-interestingly, demographers think that something like that is actually happening. There is a small but identifiable number of people who move solely because they want to get to where they find the politics more agreeable. "

" Cross wrote
I'm sorry that you're feeling bad this morning. But, how about suspending the complaining into some decent interval into the Obama Administration. Who knows? Maybe your worst fears are unfounded and you'll find Obama to be everything his supporters say that he'll be. "
Sage advice from a person who knows what it is like to spend eight years railing incessantly against a president. It will do our country no good to act like the cross's and Phil's of the world have acted for the last 8 years. We are not petulant little children, we are people who understand that our country is one of the greatest forces for good the world has ever known.
If you voted, you elected Obama, do you have to agree with him, heck no, but he is the elected leader of our country and I for one will not tear him down and weaken our country, for the simple benefit of a political party. We have seen how that has worked for the last 8 years,, Selfishness and diviseness is the mantra of the democrat party,,, let conservatives show America how a respectful and mature and positive opposition party can help to make the country stronger. As I said we have seen how the left choose to act,now let the right show how our differences can be broadcast and displayed for the good of the republic, not for the good of the party "

" hillaryc @ Nov 6, 2008 8:32 AM said, "Sage advice from a person who knows what it is like to spend eight years railing incessantly against a president."

Where, pray tell, did you get that idea? You haven't been around me for the last eight years. It looks like you're making up facts to suit your argument again.

When Bush got in, especially the second time, I shut up on public debates. I admit that it was a sullen silence but I wasn't "railing" against anybody. It started for me when W proved his incompetence. "

" jeroze wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:40 PM:

" As I have been saying all day long,
November 4, 2008......A GREAT DAY for AMERICA. I hope that greedy capitalism will suffer a crippling blow. Let the Common Good be our watchword. " Worked like in a dream in the Soviet Union, Communist China, North Korea..... "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:57 AM:

" hillaryc @ Nov 6, 2008 8:32 AM said, "Sage advice from a person who knows what it is like to spend eight years railing incessantly against a president."

Where, pray tell, did you get that idea? You haven't been around me for the last eight years. It looks like you're making up facts to suit your argument again.

When Bush got in, especially the second time, I shut up on public debates. I admit that it was a sullen silence but I wasn't "railing" against anybody...." Talk is cheap, isn't it? Or are you making up facts to suit your argument again?
"...It started for me when W proved his incompetence. " And Obama is competent? Wants to raise capital gains taxes out of "fairness" even though he openly admits it will further hurt the economy? Says his first move will be to push the freedom of choice act? Is the lack of abortions our biggest problem? Is it a problem? Picks Biden?
OK, let's wait until Barack Hussein Obama has proven his incompetence .... Done. Open season. Hey, according to you it's OK. "

" Phil wrote on Nov 3, 2008 7:44 PM:

" We can now add "Tom" to the list that includes xdfred, hetfield, Newswatcher, etc. - that are clueless about economics, politics, and character.

Someday you might wake up and join the rest of this country in the world of reality. "

Kennedy cut top tax rates. Good economy. Reagen cut top tax rates. Good economy. Carter raised top tax rates. Lousy economy. Bush cut top tax rates. Good economy. What's going on now? The housing loan crises. Thank you Frank, Dodd, and Cuomo/Clinton. What's reality again? "

" cross, you have been one of the most vocal critics of President Bush in all the people who come here to these pages.
Quit denying the obvious.
HillaryC, thank you, I believe I will follow suit because I truly agree that the Republicans are much better mannered and mature about such matters as you mention.
Watch and read as the Liberals gloat, fan their feathers and spit on the Republicans. Typical behavior of unruly children.
My fear and anger rises out of the knowledge that our economy, already fragile from Dem practices and leadership of Pelosi and Reid, will now only get worse under the Obama Socialist Plan.
I feel bad for my grown children and their who will have to clean up such a mess. "

" You can't feed the Entrepenuerial Spirit of America with the Expense of Obama's Spread the Wealth Social Policy = higher taxes.
They won't mix. People will lose their desire to succeed past a certain level if it will cost them more to do so. "

" It's tough to stomach the idea that more than half of my fellow citizens who vote, have booted a genuine American hero to the curb for a rudderless charlatan. What a sad indictment on our citizenry that some are so eager to overlook his myriad flaws -- his radical roots, his extreme liberalism, his utter lack of experience or achievement. Barack Obama is the antithesis of King's dream: He's a man judged by the color of his skin rather than the content of his character. "

" Fact: Voters in Harlem voted for Obama only because he is seen as a black man. They gave (them) McCain’s ideas and policy proposals and told them they were Obama’s ideas. They loved them. Talk about racism. The great FDR was a Socialist of the highest order and spread the wealth and took a Country that had done well for over 150 years and turned it into a bunch of Socialist they felt government owed them a life. Just as the great Lincoln slaughtered in cold blood the citizens of States that new they had made the mistake of joining the Union. Like the mafia, once in never out. The civil war was not fought over slavery but States rights. Lincoln freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Seems he forgot a few. Now we sit on the brink of a new age indeed of change. Ask California gays about the church sticking their nose in what is none of there business. These churches also need to be taxed and force to pay a share. The days of free rides for churches also need to come to an end. Jim Baker come to mind? "

" Anyone else find think's posts and his name to be ironic? I just wonder why he hates America so much and blames her for all of the world's problems. "

" Selfishness and diviseness is the mantra of the democrat party,,, let conservatives show America how a respectful and mature and positive opposition party can help to make the country stronger. As I said we have seen how the left choose to act,now let the right show how our differences can be broadcast and displayed for the good of the republic, not for the good of the party "

First, the Republicans need to learn proper grammar. When used in a sentence like yours, it is "democratic party" not "democrat party". Guess if you can't speak properly it sure is hard to govern. Buy hey, Sarah Palin thinks Africa is a country so what do you expect. Anyone who says "democrat" instead of "democratic" party is probably one of those people that cubbies08 was talking about when he said people didn't have an IQ high enough to vote.

Second, the vitrol that populates our national discourse has its roots in the Republican party and Lee Atwater. Study your history. Then the right wing nutjobs, led by Rush Limbaugh started polluting the airwaves of AM radio. It continues even today with Minority Leader John Boehner slamming the choice of Rahm Emanuel as chief of staff before the man even starts the job.

Finally, even though I knew before he was elected that George Bush was unprepared and didn't have the ability to be even a mediocre president, I never started being critical of him until he started screwing up. Didn't take long did it?

Just look at some of the posts your right wing friends are already posting about Pres. Obama here. Guess your point is already disproved. "

" Phil wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:42 PM:

" Selfishness and diviseness is the mantra of the democrat party,,, let conservatives show America how a respectful and mature and positive opposition party can help to make the country stronger. As I said we have seen how the left choose to act,now let the right show how our differences can be broadcast and displayed for the good of the republic, not for the good of the party "

First, the Republicans need to learn proper grammar. When used in a sentence like yours, it is "democratic party" not "democrat party". It is democrat party. Are democrats known as democrats, or democratics?

"...Second, the vitrol that populates our national discourse has its roots in the Republican party and Lee Atwater. Study your history. Then the right wing nutjobs, led by Rush Limbaugh started polluting the airwaves of AM radio. It continues even today with Minority Leader John Boehner slamming the choice of Rahm Emanuel as chief of staff before the man even starts the job...." What a snow job. Rahm Emanuel is a hardcore leftwinger, based on his record and activities. Try again.

As I mentioned before, someone who wants to raise capital gains taxes when the stock market is tanking defines incompetent. "

" xdfred, at least we have a few of us on here that know how the economy works. The Democrats just keep hoping there will be a big money-tree out there somewhere. Maybe it will grow on the grounds of companies that want to make less money in the future.
These people just don't get it, Fred. Unfortunately, we'll all have to suffer the consequences of their votes and hope/pray that Obama gets SOMEBODY to help him figure out that his campaign promises would STAB this weakened economy. He'll then have to just toss his Share The Wealth Plan under the bus with Ayers, Wright, Rezko, and the rest of his bad choices. "

" Joe can't fight facts huh? Yeah I want your church taxed as well. Spread that wealth baby. That the best you can do Joe? Where was I wrong? "

" think @ Nov 6, 2008 10:39 AM states lots of doubtful history.

He said, "Fact: Voters in Harlem ... They gave (them) McCain’s ideas and policy proposals and told them they were Obama’s ideas."

I don't believe that. Prove it.

He said, "FDR ... took a Country that had done well for over 150 years and turned it into a bunch of Socialist...."

Well, they don't call it the "Great Depression" because there was just one slow day on Wall Street.

He said, "Lincoln slaughtered in cold blood the citizens of States that new they had made the mistake of joining the Union."

Excuse me, but there was a war on. And Lee and his soldiers were not exactly unarmed.

He said, "The civil war was not fought over slavery but States rights."

Two things wrong there. It started over preservation of the union. When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, it was turned into a war against slavery.

And, you do remember that the South lost. That ended any possible claim that the United States is a voluntary association.

He said, "These churches also need to be taxed and force to pay a share."

There is a teeny-weeny Constitutional problem with that. The power to tax is the "power to destroy." And, the Bill of Rights says that the government can't "destroy" a church.

Nothing you had to say, think, is factually correct. That does make your screen name ironic. "

" Kramerica @ Nov 6, 2008 10:02 AM said, "It's tough to stomach the idea that more than half of my fellow citizens who vote, have booted a genuine American hero to the curb...."

Excuse me, but since when is losing an election being "booted to the curb." McCain is a war hero. No one disputes that. But, that alone gives no one a claim on the presidency.

He also says, "a rudderless charlatan. What a sad indictment on our citizenry that some are so eager to overlook his myriad flaws....

That's only your opinion. More than half of the country disagrees with you. We have found that your beliefs are based on lies peddled by the radical right.

Steve Cross "

" Newswatcher @ Nov 6, 2008 9:49 AM said, "You can't feed the Entrepenuerial Spirit of America with the Expense of Obama's Spread the Wealth Social Policy = higher taxes.
They won't mix. People will lose their desire to succeed past a certain level if it will cost them more to do so."

Oh, baloney. Remember the guy who builds a better mousetrap? People are always going to find good ways to make another buck and nothing will hold them back.

Take a look at Sweden and Norway. A monster percentage of their income goes to taxes. (I don't propose that we duplicate that.) But there is no dearth of innovation in those countries.

Steve Cross "

" Newswatcher @ Nov 6, 2008 9:46 AM said, "cross, you have been one of the most vocal critics of President Bush in all the people who come here to these pages."

Yeah, and it's now the eighth year of his administration. I said, if you read what I said, that I remained silent after his election until it was clear that nothing had changed and that his policies were objectionable.

I expect no less from you with Obama.

Steve Cross "

" xdfred @ Nov 6, 2008 9:34 AM said, "And Obama is competent?"

You can take it to the bank. "

" Phil, Are you talking about Democratic Rahm Emmanuel who was on the board of Freddie Mac?

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081106133228.aspx

Nice to see your fair and balanced. I mean he could have worked for Halliburton or Enron. Politics of change are looking strangely familiar. Anyhow as Cross and Phil only represent the kook fringe of leftists and are incapable of being open minded or bi-partisan, I once again ask all of you to support or criticise the president- elect in a mature and thoughtful manner. We do not and cannot afford to continue the divisive politics of the last 8 years forced upon us by the mindless and seemingly borderline pyschotic rantings of people like Cross and Phil. We are one country, except apparently according to Phil and Cross the states of Mississippi - Alabama - Oklahoma and Kansas. "

" "There is a teeny-weeny Constitutional problem with that. The power to tax is the "power to destroy." And, the Bill of Rights says that the government can't "destroy" a church." Now you get it. Tax is the power to destroy. Take your god crap and keep it out of my face. Pay your fair share. Your church has it. Since when does Gov. care about the Constitution or Bill Of Rights. Like the 2nd..... "

" Newswatcher said: " The Democrats just keep hoping there will be a big money-tree out there somewhere."

In 1980 when Reagan was elected, the US deficit was $1 Trillion. It is now nearing $11 Trillion.

4 presidents - 1 of them a Democrat. The only one who ended his term without growing the deficit was Bill Clinton the Democrat. And Clinton's tax plan was passed without a single Republican voting for it.

Now which party thinks there must be a money tree?

Get a dose of reality - the Republicans are the party of fiscal irresponsibility - they aren't capable of running a government in a sound manner. "

" cross, so far, the investors aren't liking the economic forcast of Obama's Spread the Wealth Plan, are they?
Dow down 486 yesterday, and 445 today.
Hummm, seems like we knew what we were talking about and you just voted for the warm fuzzy feeling!
My prediction is this:
The Dow will continue to drop.
Jobs losses will follow.
Bankrupties and Foreclosures will rise to a new high.
The Middle East will squeeze us again with rising oilprices driving gas up to $4-5/gal again and since Obama is against reasonable domestic drilling, we'll have to suffer the consequences.

Don't tag me with this "you have a doom and gloom outlook on our country" crap either. I am calling it out as my prediction based on history and Obama's promises linked together and it ain't pretty!
Unless of course he backs out on his promises, like a typical politician. "

" Welcome to the USSA!

I'm moving to Canada "

" I enjoy MR Claysons columns very much. I wish more people could love this country and enjoy our freedom like we do "

" Good old Abe! Freed the slaves in the south & left the rest to clean a brick house in the north. As far as the fools in Harlem look on Glen Beck’s page. Lincoln was a total scum bag that earned his end. The first dictator of the US. "

" Phil wrote,
Get a dose of reality - the Republicans are the party of fiscal irresponsibility - they aren't capable of running a government in a sound manner. "
Have to give Phil partial credit here as all you have to do is look at Bloomberg in NYC and Arnold in CA and congress from 2004 to 2006.
Curious as to peoples reactions to the trial balloons being thrown around about government tinkering with our 401k's http://www.cnbc.com/id/27558644/site/14081545 "

" Thank you hillaryc - I think.

It is funny how you and others think I am so far left.

I won't try to explain all my views here but people really need to step back a look at what positions are actually conservative, liberal and libertarian. I hold views on different positions that would fit into all three of these categories.

Meanwhile I suggest you direct your scoldings to Newswatcher and others who have already started the mudslinging. "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:56 PM:

" xdfred @ Nov 6, 2008 9:34 AM said, "And Obama is competent?"

You can take it to the bank. " Great way to dodge the issue. You can't cover for his ineptness and total lack of experience. He sure wasn't elected for his accomplishments. "

" Phil wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:47 PM:

" Newswatcher said: " The Democrats just keep hoping there will be a big money-tree out there somewhere."..."

".....In 1980 when Reagan was elected, the US deficit was $1 Trillion. It is now nearing $11 Trillion...."

".....Get a dose of reality - the Republicans are the party of fiscal irresponsibility - they aren't capable of running a government in a sound manner...." Agreed. George Bush was to busy trying to be a nice guy and never vetoed big spending bills. The party needs to get back to being what it was under Reagan. "

" Under Reagan the USSR was destroyed without so much as a shot fired. Long term that investment was a bargain compared to what a nuclear war would be. Now in Massachusetts they have voted to allow some people to have medical marijuana. Wait until the FEDS shut that down. The ever tolerant Socialist Californians denied same sex marriage due to influence from the church. What do people like me want? Simple to be left alone. I don’t want to support low life drunks and others too lazy to work. They are not my problem. I’ll pay tax for roads and snow removal and a few other items the Constitution deems fit. I don’t want a dime going to foreign aid to Africa, or Iceland. Were not talking about owning a chemical dump but I want my land to be mine and build as I want without a permit. I want the same freedom those patriots paid with blood for to get away from King George. I do not want my wealth spread around by anyone. I don’t want the church cramming their ideology down my throat. Keep it inside. Is that so hard to grasp? The same freedoms we had in 1800 I want today. Yes, if I want to smoke opium in my home and don’t give it to kids stay off my (deleted). If I want to make shine in my barn get off my (deleted). If I want to marry two adult women stay off my (deleted). You go to church and I'll stay off yours. "

" carrot311 @ Nov 6, 2008 7:48 PM said, "Welcome to the USSA! I'm moving to Canada"

Let'see. You think we're becoming socialist and so you're moving where?

Don't know much about Canada, do you?

Steve Cross "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 5, 2008 2:45 PM:

" think @ Nov 5, 2008 8:39 AM said, "PA that rust belt of welfare cases."

cubbies08 @ Nov 5, 2008 12:19 PM said, "I wonder how long it will be before Obama messes up and the blame is put on Bush."

cubbies08 @ Nov 5, 2008 12:21 PM said, "we should require voters to pass an IQ test before they can vote... that probably would have changed the outcome of the election."

think @ Nov 5, 2008 1:09 PM said, "Many people in this Country are sick of California and New York deciding who we elect. really think that time has come for conservatives to have their own Country."

I'm sorry that you're feeling bad this morning. But, how about suspending the complaining into some decent interval into the Obama Administration. Who knows? Maybe your worst fears are unfounded and you'll find Obama to be everything his supporters say that he'll be.

Here is the problem. I am not feeling bad that Obama won. I knew he was going to win weeks ago. The problem I have is the man has not done anything YET to warrant everyone anoiting him as the next great savior. To compare him to JFK is ridiculous. When he accomplishes something then let me know. Just getting elected doesn't mean you have made it. "

" Phil wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:10 AM:

" Thank you hillaryc - I think.

It is funny how you and others think I am so far left...." Gee I wonder why?


"..Meanwhile I suggest you direct your scoldings to Newswatcher and others who have already started the mudslinging..." Just reliving 2000 and 2004. "

" think @ Nov 6, 2008 9:21 PM wrote some lies and insults against Abraham Lincoln.

Fortunately, Lincoln's legacy requires no defense and will always be remembered. Others, who spread lies and insults won't.

Steve Cross "

" Newswatcher....Why do you hate....My god, I have never seen anyone on here like you....You back McCain and he loses, well lets use the word Beat....he gets beat..and you can't deal with it.

You talk about Obama....excuse me President Elect Obama. The race is over, John McCain is a loser, he made mistakes mavericks don't make. He made bad decisions hero's don't make.

Now why don't you just go sit down, reflect and you will see he made some stupid decisions in a Pathetic campaign.

And why you are sitting there reflecting, reflect on how the heck you are going to justify supporting Palin on her next run.

Maybe you can e-mail her and give her some of you always right intelligence.
McCain was in a race he lost as soon as he mentioned Palin and Joe the plumber, both who used this system to gain fame.

McCain is just one Pathetic Loser. "

" Newswatcher @ Nov 6, 2008 7:07 PM said that we're all in a hand-basket and he knows where we're going in it. Also, that Obama will back out on campaign promises.

It takes a lot of something to bet against someone who is probably one of the smartest people to be president.

In any case, I like Obama's attitude when asked about the monster problems we have. This isn't a quote, but it was along the lines of, "The greater the challenges, the greater the opportunities. Who wants to be president in quiet times?"

/s/Steve Cross "

" think @ Nov 7, 2008 9:34 AM said, "I do not want my wealth spread around by anyone."

Fortunately, we live in a society with a government that has better instincts than "think" does. And, in our society, it's the laws of the society and not the views of some calloused individuals that govern.

He also said, "I don’t want the church cramming their ideology down my throat."

Hey! You're living in the right country. Religion and government are separate here so you needn't worry about any religion controlling you.

He also said, "The same freedoms we had in 1800 I want today."

In 1800 you had the freedom to be a hermit it you wanted. Now, we're living cheek by jowl and you need to learn how to live in a close-knit society.

BTW, do you really mean all that stuff or are you just trying to get a rise out of people?

/s/Steve Cross "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:51 AM:

" Newswatcher @ Nov 6, 2008 7:07 PM said that we're all in a hand-basket and he knows where we're going in it. Also, that Obama will back out on campaign promises.

It takes a lot of something to bet against someone who is probably one of the smartest people to be president...." What's smart got to do with it? Carter supposedly was a genius. As I said before, and no one replied, how smart is it to threaten raisning capital gains taxes when the stock market is in the dumps? So either he does something idiotic, or backs out of his pledge. And we can add that to his list of waffles. Be impressed with his smartness all you want. I think accomplishments and results count for more. And he said his first move would be to push some freedom of choice act. Why? Don't we have more serious issues? Is the abortion lobby broke now, after kicking in to the democrat coffers? Then there's Biden. Real genius there. Where was Biden the last two weeks of the campaign? "

" I have read comments on here a long time and from time to time I agree on issues from both sides. Myself..I am an Independent. I have voted for Bush and I have voted for Clinton.

WAVERLY..to call McCain a pathetic loser???? That says a lot about your character. The man is far from that. To even make that comment demonstrates your narrow-mindedness and total lack of what a real patriot is. Let's just pray that President Elect Obama doesn't have your same opinions. "

" I find it pretty sad and childish that so many of you feel the need to namecall. Really, it just makes me not take your opinion seriously as an informed (or uninformed, in this case) adult. I truly hope you are not parents, teaching this kind of immature hatred to them. "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:51 AM:

"...In any case, I like Obama's attitude when asked about the monster problems we have. This isn't a quote, but it was along the lines of, "The greater the challenges, the greater the opportunities. Who wants to be president in quiet times?..." How profound. How deep. How original. How all-gobble-no-bite. What did Mr. Attitude accomplish in the senate? Ill state senate? Let me save you the trouble. Zero. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. He's never walked the talk, has he? "

" Newswatcher wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:49 PM:

" xdfred, at least we have a few of us on here that know how the economy works. The Democrats just keep hoping there will be a big money-tree out there somewhere. Maybe it will grow on the grounds of companies that want to make less money in the future.
These people just don't get it, Fred. Unfortunately, we'll all have to suffer the consequences of their votes and hope/pray that Obama gets SOMEBODY to help him figure out that his campaign promises would STAB this weakened economy. He'll then have to just toss his Share The Wealth Plan under the bus with Ayers, Wright, Rezko, and the rest of his bad choices. "

Yes Newswatcher, we all suffer together from the consequences of our own votes and the votes of the 59,245,671 who voted on the winning side in 2004.

And we all end up having a much greater debt to pay, we all suffer when the regulations of our great land of laws are not enforced, and about 95% of us suffer from the greedy grabbers who have gotten richer over the last eight years, until they got caught in America's financial blow-up which has hurt every single one of us.

That is how the economy works and I am sure that you know it since you have watched the news. "

" "Hey! You're living in the right country. Religion and government are separate here so you needn't worry about any religion controlling you." Tell that to the Gays in California. Why do we have the DEA? All driven by church going thugs who want their god in my home. At least we don't kill in the name of Isis or Pan.

He also said, "The same freedoms we had in 1800 I want today."

"In 1800 you had the freedom to be a hermit it you wanted. Now, we're living cheek by jowl and you need to learn how to live in a close-knit society." You stay close knit-I want nothing to do with your God and the foolish idea I have to care for anyone other than my family. I owe you nothing but you seem to think I do. So why don't you pay my gas bill and do the church thing. Simple

"BTW, do you really mean all that stuff or are you just trying to get a rise out of people?" I mean just what I said. Lincoln was only after the tax money from the south.He was a Socialist. He started a WAR to get it. He didn't care about slaves until then. I can't wait to see the next revolt take place. I live for it. The price of freedom don't come easy. That's not far off. "

" jeroze wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:47 PM:


"..... we all suffer together from the consequences of our own votes and the votes of the 59,245,671 who voted on the winning side in 2004...." Did us a lot of good, didn't it.

"...And we all end up having a much greater debt to pay, we all suffer when the regulations of our great land of laws are not enforced, and about 95% of us suffer from the greedy grabbers who have gotten richer over the last eight years..." By providing goods and services at competitive prices.
"...until they got caught in America's financial blow-up ..." Caused by liberal do gooders who think everyone is entitled to what those who work hard, set goals, and acheive have. "

" Newswhimperer, the only bad thing right now is Bush is still president for 2 more months. "

" xdfred @ Nov 7, 2008 12:03 PM said, "What did Mr. Attitude accomplish in the senate? Ill state senate? Let me save you the trouble. Zero. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. He's never walked the talk, has he?"

In case you hadn't heard, the election is over. "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 7, 2008 2:08 PM:
"In case you hadn't heard, the election is over. "

Kind of like those still complaining about the 2000 election to this DAY despite the myths being disproven already "

" cross1242 wrote on Nov 7, 2008 2:08 PM:

" xdfred @ Nov 7, 2008 12:03 PM said, "What did Mr. Attitude accomplish in the senate? Ill state senate? Let me save you the trouble. Zero. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. He's never walked the talk, has he?"

In case you hadn't heard, the election is over. " No kidding. So you agree with what I wrote. Good. "

" Hey Phil,
Duh...everyone knows John McCain was born in Panama...on a U.S. Naval base that was sovreign territory of the United States, by both parents that were naturalized citizens. Therefore, John McCain IS a naturalized citizen of the United States and that is not even disputed. He had his credentials and was never hiding them. What about Obama? Where are his credentials? Or how about even his college transcripts? He has been hiding A LOT and still leaves way too many questions about him to us Conservatives. What and why is he hiding from all of us? "

" This just in. Barack Hussein Obama, when asked about talking to ex-presidents, refers to Nancy Reagan as having seances. She never did. Hillary was the one that had at least one seance. "

" xdfred said: "The party needs to get back to being what it was under Reagan. "

Actually, try Eisenhower. Reagan was fiscally irresponsible also - but he did raise taxes when he needed to - despite the myth that he didn't. Overall, Eisenhower was the real conservative though compared to Reagan. "

" Cubbies, i am not even going to get started with you.....McCain patriotic....boy it showed didn't it......and your blog name Cubbies08, McCain is just like the Cubs....LOSERS! "

" xdfred, have you read Collin Powell's Book which explains that Ronald Reagan's signing of a treaty was set at 2:00 P.M. in the afternoon because Nancy insisted that was the time. She had been to her astrologer who said the stars were just right at that moment. "

" Well Kramerica, this election has no myths tied to it. The crushing defeat of the hard-right is a cold hard November FACT! "

" I hope Clayson looks into his crystal ball again this week. "

" with all due respects think, the USSR was not defeated without a shot fired.the USSR was defeated in large part by a proxy war in afganastan.durrung the reagan administration. bill casy the CIA director put fourth a plan to cause cival unrest among the islamist fundamentalists living in and around russia which bought great instability to the regin.remember, sothern russa at the time was mostly muslim. the unfortunate side is that both sides are not at all to happy with us.tricking another culture to do our dirty work was not a good idea "

" A comment of mine in response to this column by Clayson was published in Friday's paper. See it at:

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/11/08/columnists/guest_column/doc491453035a8d2710624499.txt#blogcomments "