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Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:15 AM CDT
McCain's health care numbers don't add up
By DONNA WOOD
During the Oct. 2 VP debates, as Joe Biden was explaining about John McCain’s health care plan, someone at the table next to mine yelled out, "I don’t understand all those stupid numbers!" It’s not that hard, and it’s important.

McCain proposes to grant a tax credit that is used to buy health insurance. From his Web site: "Every family will receive a direct refundable tax credit — effectively cash — of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider."

OK, so it’s not really "cash"; you won’t ever see it. But never mind that. Under the McCain plan, your family would take that $5,000 you’re not spending on taxes, and spend it on health insurance instead. You would not have the option to spend it on, say, credit card debt or your child’s education.

Biden pointed out that McCain’s plan eliminates the current tax break for employers’ health insurance payments. That is, you pay $5,000 less in taxes if you buy health insurance, but your employer can no longer deduct the $7,000 to $12,000 it pays for your health insurance. Employers are always looking for ways to cut costs, and unions have little leverage any more, so it seems very likely that many employers will cancel their health insurance benefits.

A recent study by university researchers at Columbia, Purdue, Michigan and Harvard estimates that 20 million families who are currently insured will lose their coverage if the McCain proposal is implemented. They write, "Moving toward a relatively unregulated nongroup market (as McCain proposes) will tend to raise costs, reduce the generosity of benefits, and leave people with fewer consumer protections."

I think 20 million is a low estimate, but let’s run with it for the sake of illustration. Those 20 million families will lose health insurance that costs roughly $12,000, on average. They will lose it because their employers can save a lot of money that way. They must replace their coverage, but they only have $5,000 to replace it with. Do you know of an insurance company that will give you $12,000 worth of coverage for $5,000?

These families could decide to pay the extra $7,000 themselves, adding this amount to the tax credit and thus replacing their lost $12,000 policies. The Census Bureau’s 2007 income statistics tell us that half of American households bring home less than $50,000 a year. Now subtract the $7,000-plus extra cost of health insurance, and taxes, and there’s precious little left to live on, much less save for the future.

But there’s a bigger problem: these families will no longer be eligible for group plans, which spread risk over a large number of people. This means that insurance companies can deny them coverage for any reason whatsoever. If they have any "pre-existing conditions," that is, if they actually need health insurance, they will certainly be denied coverage.

Point of fact: an ordinarily healthy 22-year-old college graduate I know was recently denied individual coverage because he has "sports asthma," which basically means that he has to avoid running and exercise in other ways.

McCain’s answer to this virtually certain denial of coverage is to "work with governors" to implement "state best practices" to get everyone covered. Perhaps he intends to emulate Massachusetts’ universal coverage, which likely is the current best practice among states. Somehow, though, I think not.

Many millions of American families are one illness, one accident or one surgery away from financial ruin. Many have already been ruined. Many more will become eligible for ruin under a McCain administration.

There are those who argue that markets always work. This is the bill of goods we have been sold in this country for the last 35 years — and it bears no resemblance to economic or societal facts. Markets fail to control monopoly, secure fairness, and protect against harms.

Nevertheless, the market torch-bearers maintain that people without health insurance are simply unwilling to pay its cost. This may be true, but so what? People also need food, warmth, shelter, clothing, transportation and education.

My friends, it is not right that we live in this wealthy nation and have 42 million people with no health insurance. To throw another 20 million-plus families — that’s 60 or 80 million people — off the health care rolls would be to compound the wrong, not to correct it. Please — think about it.

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CJB wrote on Oct 26, 2008 12:54 PM:

" This would be an unmitigated disaster for millions of working class families. Why add to the millions without insurance? How does that solve anything? Insurance companies make money denying people health care, why on earth should our health policy aid in that? Why should these companies have any say? Obama's plan moves us closer to what every other developed country has - McCain's plan moves us backwards. "

Waterloo Reader wrote on Oct 26, 2008 8:21 PM:

" Donna....I mean "CJB": why do you want what "every other developed country has?" Their care is substandard and their system is overburdened. The Canada system is so broken that they flood the northern states for care when they get sick and private pay for their care.

Just because someone doesn't have health care insurance doesn't mean they aren't getting great health care. The health care in the US is the best. Let's not mess with a system that isn't broken. "

Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 7:25 AM:

" Waterloo Reader - may I suggest you go to the website for Frontline - see link below. Watch the episode called "Sick Around the World". The reporter travels to 5 countries around the globe to compare our system to the ones they offer. Canada is NOT one of the countries reported on - but their system is better than ours.

Our health care system is NOT the best, not by a long ways. We have great technology - perhaps the best - but the system, and how it serves ALL Americans - very, very poor. In the countries covered in the show it is unheard of for someone to go bankrupt over a health emergency - in fact it would be a scandal.

Just watch it - you will learn a lot - I know I did.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/ "

Waterloo Reader wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:01 AM:

" Thanks for the advice Phil, I'll try to get to it tonight.

I used Canada as an example because I get the chance to meet Canadians on an annual basis and I have taken the time to ask them about their system. Their system is what Billary aspired to so I started watching it. The best quote from a Canadian was: "It's a great system, as long as you don't get sick."

The point I always try to make is that we don't have American citizens dying for lack of competent medical care. The issue always is on the numbers that don't have insurance....it doesn't mean they don't have medical care. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 27, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Obama's Healthcare plan would sink our economy, period. Add the expense of that to his Redistribution of Wealth Plan and there's no possible way to pay for it all.
To think there are people in this country who are denied health'care', you have language-confusion.
Health 'Insurance', not health'care' is what many people don't have. Romney has a far better plan for the Health Insurance discrepency than Obama's blanket Socialist Plan.

Many of these people who say they can't afford Health Insurance have; new TV's, Ipods, computers, cellphones, expensive clothes & shoes, new cars or rims on cars, they get manicures &/or pedicures & expensive haircuts, party like there's no tomorrow, smoke cigs and gamble.
With the new handouts from Obama's camp, they would get even MORE free stuff. Oh BOY! Isn't this a great country?
Pretty soon, you'll have those of us who work our butts off just stop. You'll pull the rug of motivation right out from under us. We won't earn enough to continue to spend the money we usually do out there (translates into lost jobs). Hey, why should I work hard so YOU can not work at all and still get the things YOU want? I don't think so! If you're hungry and can't work, I already pay to feed you. What Obama wants is gravy on top of the potatoes and meat we already put on your plate.

Obama's Redistribution of Wealth Plan + Obama's Healthplan = Economic and medical disaster! "

xdfred wrote on Oct 27, 2008 9:37 AM:

" Newswatcher wrote on Oct 27, 2008 9:08 AM:

I agree. Many people now think the government or employer should take care of all their needs so they can get more of their wants. "

Waterloo Reader wrote on Oct 27, 2008 9:52 AM:

" The audio transcript of NObama's 2001 interview on NPR ought to be front page news if the press wasn't on it's collective knees in front of NObama. He is not speaking of a tax cut, he is speaking of wholesale redistribution of wealth backed by the Supreme Court. Are you kidding me?! "

xdfred wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:25 AM:

" Questions for Donna Wood or anybody else.

How is it "fair" that an employer provided health plan is paid for with pre tax dollars, to the employee, but someone who buys his/her own health plan has to use post tax dollars to do it?
Where in the Constitution does the federal government get the power to decree that employers have to provide a health plan? "

Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:35 AM:

" Newswatcher - whether or not there are people who have some of material goods you list and don't have health insurance really isn't the point.

The point is you shouldn't be held financially hostage to health care/health insurance. We are the ONLY industrialized nation that is.

American corporations would love to be out of the health insurance purchasing business. Don't you think this is costing the USA jobs? Don't you think Detroit would be doing better if they could get this cost off their books?

I urge you to watch the Frontline report - see how much we pay compared to other countries. The last segment of the report covers Switzerland - a very capitalist nation who 15 years ago was basically like the USA regaring health care/insurance. Listen to what the conservative politicians have to say about their "new" system. It can work here - they are the proof.

The medical disaster is in the USA - and in this downturn - it will get worse. "

Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:44 AM:

" xdfred - in response to your questions:

1. It is not fair - and it should be changed to be the same for both individuals and companies.

2. Obviously the Constitution doesn't say that. Without trying to answer your question further, I urge all readers to watch the Frontline report to see how other capitalist countries are doing this. It is a better answer than I can give.

The report does NOT take a political position of liberal vs. conservative or Democrat vs. Republican. I don't think those things are even mentioned.

It does NOT try to shove a solution down your throat, though it does highlight the features it likes from each country's plan.

The biggest thing I think it demonstrates is that it can be done - reasonably and fairly - if we are willing to take off our partisan hats and do what is best for ALL Americans. "

TruthSeeker wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:52 AM:

" "OK, so it’s not really "cash"; you won’t ever see it. But never mind that. Under the McCain plan, your family would take that $5,000 you’re not spending on taxes, and spend it on health insurance instead."

Well, I may be mistaken, but doesn't a tax credit show up on the bottom line of your tax return? In other words, say you were going to get a $1,000 refund...wouldn't a $5,000 credit give you a $6,000 refund instead?

"You would not have the option to spend it on, say, credit card debt or your child’s education."

So now you're saying the government should give you money to pay off your credit card debt? You are farther left than I thought! What's next?

I think if you ended up with a larger refund (or had to pay less out of your pocket for taxes), you could spend the extra money on whatever you wanted.

"Employers are always looking for ways to cut costs, and unions have little leverage any more, so it seems very likely that many employers will cancel their health insurance benefits."

True...companies (at least well-managed ones) are always looking for ways to cut costs. So why wouldn't they cut health insurance benefits now, without the McCain plan?

Phil says, "In the countries covered in the show it is unheard of for someone to go bankrupt over a health emergency"

In those countries, there are also long waits for needed medical care. When the government (with your tax dollars) pays for health care, they get to decide who gets health care and what will be covered. In a private-pay system, the insured gets to decide when and for what they will receive treatment.

And what is better: For an individual to be bankrupted due to large medical bills, or for the entire country to be bankrupted by a massive entitlement program we can't afford? "

gmaro wrote on Oct 27, 2008 11:12 AM:

" Actually, no one is denied health care. Because anyone seeking treatment is treated. The cost is just added on to those who do pay. Truthfully, I cannot see either plan working. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 27, 2008 12:34 PM:

" Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:44 AM:

" xdfred - in response to your questions:

2. Obviously the Constitution doesn't say that. ..." If the Constitution doesn't say it, then the federal government shouldn't do it. "

think wrote on Oct 27, 2008 1:10 PM:

" By some fluke Obama is elected I am going to give up my business and working 60 hours a week and go on food stamps and welfare. I just want to be one of the boys. Why work when the great one will take it from CJB and give it to me. I can use a break. Maybe I will vote Obama and sleep in. "

Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 1:33 PM:

" Truthseeker - obviously you haven't watched the report - cause there are not long waits for needed medical care. In several of the countries the wait times are less than ours.

Also ask any insured who was denied coverage of a procedure if they got to decide what treatments they received. Sure they could pay for the treatment themselves - if they could afford it. That does not happen in the countries in the report.

Finally, EVERY single one of those countries in the report spends less per citizen than the USA does. Is it expensive? Yes. But those systems work much better than ours do.

Folks this report will NOT give you all the answers - but it will:

1) make you think
2) make you realize we do NOT have it nearly as good as you think we do here - there are places and people that do things smarter and better than we do and it is time we admitted it to ourselves - and not let the insurance and drug companies convince us otherwise "

Sparkette wrote on Oct 27, 2008 3:29 PM:

" Newswatcher: My son, who has to pay for his own coverage or he doesn't get coverage, also doesn't have a new TV, or iPod, or fancy clothes, or even a new(er) car, and he only has a cell phone because I pay for it. He's a college student that is beyond the age limit to be on my insurance, but studies too much to have a full-time job that would pay for his insurance. If I didn't kick in the money to pay for his insurance 75% of the time, he wouldn't have it.

Please don't generalize and lump all struggling people into one unfair pile. Most people I know are honest, hardworking and try the best they can. If the options before them are paying their rent and grocery bill or paying for insurance, their rent and food will win every time.

WaterlooReader: Have you ever looked at your insurance statement after you get medical care? Every one of them has a line that says something like "Plan Discount Amount". This is the amount your insurance company and the doctor/hospital negotiated in advance what the coverage for each item will be. If the hospital charges over that amount, it is discounted from your total bill.

Uninsured do not have that option. They pay the full amount, and it can be a staggering number. On my last statement, my office visit was $250 before the Plan Discount; it was only $135 after. So, yes, no health insurance does mean no health care. If you can't afford insurance, how are you going to afford the doctor? Let alone surgery or an accident.

There will always be someone to take advantage of the system; someone who will do as little as they can and seem to get much more than their share. But, they are the minority. The majority of people are trying to raise their families, pay their bills and make life a little better than it has been in the past. We hear mostly about the bad, that is the way the media is; but that doesn't mean we have to believe it. "

dfrank5775 wrote on Oct 27, 2008 3:38 PM:

" xrfred and Phil;

Individuals can all pay their health care premiums with pretax dollars. One way is to have their employer take it out pretax, and send it to the insurance company. I don't know of any employers not willing to do that, although there may be some. Another way is if you itemize your deductions, you can list the premiums on the Schedule A. If your self-employed or one of the other two ways doesn't work, you have the right by law to set up your own pretax deductions system. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 27, 2008 3:44 PM:

" Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 1:33 PM:

" Truthseeker - obviously you haven't watched the report - cause there are not long waits for needed medical care. In several of the countries the wait times are less than ours..." Not Canada or England. Since the government plans pay the doctors, and dentists, the same regardless of how many patients they see, they tend to see the minimum number.

"..Also ask any insured who was denied coverage of a procedure if they got to decide what treatments they received..." That would be tough to do, since it is so rare.
"...Sure they could pay for the treatment themselves - if they could afford it. That does not happen in the countries in the report...." No. In the countries in the report and Canada, they wait so long for complex procedures that they probably hope the patient dies first.

Finally, EVERY single one of those countries in the report spends less per citizen than the USA does. Is it expensive? Yes. But those systems work much better than ours do...." That might be your opinion.

Folks this report will NOT give you all the answers - but it will:

1) make you think" Hardly.
2) make you realize we do NOT have it nearly as good as you think we do here" I think we have it good here. This report does not refute that opinion.
"...there are places and people that do things smarter and better than we do and it is time we admitted it to ourselves - and not let the insurance and drug companies convince us otherwise.." Not buying it. Sorry. "

cubbies08 wrote on Oct 27, 2008 4:07 PM:

" Phil,

Don't believe everything you read. I work in the healtcare field and deal extensively with doctors in Canada. I have yet to talk to a Canadian Physician that felt their system was worth a plug nickel. The average wait for a MRI in Canada is somewhere between 4-6 weeks for non emergency procedures. In the US I can get one within a week. With a national health plan the Canadian government has been burdened with large budget deficits and has been steadily reduced it's share of funding for provincial health care. Hospitals have been eliminating beds and laying of workers. MD's salaries have been capped causing the top surgeons to leave the country. In a recent Canadian survey it was estimated that approximately 220,000 Canadians are waiting for surgeries. Canada over the years has had to adjust their system to help spread the cost to the consumers..ie more like the U.S. system. "

Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 5:02 PM:

" cubbies08 - thanks for the first hand information. I did not realize the Canadian system had reached that point. Great Britian had some similar problems, but has made solid progress in correcting them - but there are still issues.

Again, none of the systems portrayed is perfect - they aren't. But to say ours is the best is to deny reality.

xdfred - you can deny reality all you want, but that doesn't change the truth. I guess having to admit you are wrong on something is just too difficult to swallow. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 27, 2008 5:03 PM:

" Here you go, Phil:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122488988370268531.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Socialized medicine in Pennsylvania. "

Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 5:04 PM:

" Agree or disagree all you want with the following article, but if you want to know where we could recoup billions of dollars to help pay for health care read this.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174994 "

hetfield wrote on Oct 27, 2008 7:53 PM:

" My friends, it is not right that we live in this wealthy nation and have 42 million people with no health insurance. To throw another 20 million-plus families — that’s 60 or 80 million people — off the health care rolls would be to compound the wrong, not to correct it. Please — think about it.

this is a lie. MS WOOD why dont you take on the chore of helping all of these people? how many poor are you having stay at your home?


one other thing. where is the Paid for by Barack Obama endorsement on this political propoganda? "

oldandgrey wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:03 PM:

" Xdfred, I understand your concern about Senator Oboma, but McCain's health care plan is not well thought out. Like I said in another post, my employer provides my family with health care at a cost of $15,000 a year, I pay a weekly co-pay percentage of about 10%. This is a benefit that they provide for over 300 workers and they are able to write off a percentage of the cost's on their taxes. McCain wants to eliminate the tax break that employers now get for providing health care to their employee's, which will then make most company's drop health care benefits as it will be too costly. Then he wants to give us $5000.00 to help pay for my family's insurance. Let's do the math, $15,000 annual cost minus $5,000, minus the 10% I pay now, that mean's I have to come up with an additional $8,500 dollars out of my annual income, and the cost of insurance has been rising annually 20%. I make of roughly $35,000. Don't you think that this paticular plan will break thousands of family's financially? I am not a big fan of universal insurance but McCain's plan will break me! "

50674 wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:06 PM:

" true cubbies ELECTIVE procedures have a wait in Canada but to sy they don't in the USA is totally incorrect. You neglect to add the many weeks patients wait to get into their specialist to get that MRI order in the first place. Now, on the other hand talk to PATIENTS in Canada and their story is the real story...they have no complaints with their health care system and will tell you they don't have the wait for emergency care or their routine care. I, too, work in the medical field and was a nurse at one of the Waterloo hospitals back in the mid-90's when this influx of Canadian doctors came. They wanted the big bucks the USA doctors made. Then they could set their own fees and accept or refuse patients based on credit reports. Is this right? NO! Now, in order to admit and see patients at one particular hospital, in Waterloo, they have to belong to that organization's "system". So much for their search for the American dreams. Clear and simple our meidical system is corrupt and needs to be fixed so 18,000 uninsured people don't die each year simply because they are uninsured. As I've said before I have to pay taxes anyway and I'd rather they go to assure everyone has equal access to health care than to Blackwater, Hilburton and all the other costs of a war we have no business being involved in. Agree, disagree, attack, ignore I could not care less. It's my opinion and I have more than enough years of experience as a nurse to have pretty much seen it all. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:16 PM:

" Sparkette,
Notice, I wrote "many of these people...", not "all of these people...".
I just knew someone would start crying about this!
Stop it, if it's not you and your son who has these things, then it's not you and your son I was talking about. But nonetheless, thousands of people out there complaining and fussing that they can't afford health insurance can afford $2000 TVs, $600 gaming systems, $300 cell phones, $8,000 tire rims, Brand new cars....etc.
I KNOW they do, I hear them complain, I see what they have and it makes me furious that they want our tax money to pay for their health insurance now. If you could see my redface!
It's SO wrong!!!!! People who really need health care are getting it.
What we need is Health Insurance Reform, not Government Involvement! They'll ruin it for sure!
But then, you Liberals can blame the government when your loved ones get sick or die from lack of great care.
This is serious stuff to hand off to the government.
Look at the Post office for crying out loud! YOu want our medical system run like that?
IRS? How's that working for us?
Dept Of Motor Vehicles? Like those lines?
Better watch out what you wish/vote for, you may just get it!
Vote McCain/Palin = the only 2 candidates with Integrity and their heads attached! "

momofthree wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:51 PM:

" No system is perfect. Of course the Canadian system has problems but ours does too. The biggest problem we have is the 43 million people with no health care. Under McCain's plan, we can expect this number to grow. We need something different now. The three indices in healthcare are infant mortality, life expectancy, and per capita spending. The USA has a higher infant mortality than the Canadians and we spend more than double per capita. The Canadians have a longer life expectancy. It seems they beat us 3-0 (Source: World Health Organization;CIA World Fact Book, Centers for Disease Control).
I have been a nurse for 28 years and I am sure the system is broken. I am not sure what the best answer is but I do know that it is not putting more Americans into the uninsured column and it is not continuing the same. Sparkette is right - the uninsured pay the most. Please don't lump all people into the same pile. Even people who do have health insurance are collapsing under deductibles, denials, pre-existing conditions, and copays. More than 65% of the bankruptcies in this country are the direct result of medical costs. If you are healthy and have good insurance, that's fine. However, please have some compassion for those who are less fortunate. "

momofthree wrote on Oct 27, 2008 9:00 PM:

" 50674- Maybe we know each other! Anyway, you are SO CORRECT! I remember the influx of Canadian doctors too! Good point, too, about how long you wait to see a specialist.... I just booked an appointment for myself for March 2009! It's time for something different in healthcare. With all the $$$ being spent in a war that was "Mission Accomplished" years age, we could have fully funded healthcare for every American. That's my opinion and I've spent enough time in this business to know how the American healthcare system really works (or doesn't) "

hetfield wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:49 PM:

" 50674 wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:06 PM:

" true cubbies ELECTIVE procedures have a wait in Canada but to sy they don't in the USA is totally incorrect. You neglect to add the many weeks patients wait to get into their specialist to get that MRI order in the first place. Now, on the other hand talk to PATIENTS in Canada and their story is the real story...they have no complaints with their health care system and will tell you they don't have the wait for emergency care or their routine care. I, too, work in the medical field and was a nurse at one of the Waterloo hospitals back in the mid-90's when this influx of Canadian doctors came. They wanted the big bucks the USA doctors made. Then they could set their own fees and accept or refuse patients based on credit reports. Is this right? NO! Now, in order to admit and see patients at one particular hospital, in Waterloo, they have to belong to that organization's "system". So much for their search for the American dreams. Clear and simple our meidical system is corrupt and needs to be fixed so 18,000 uninsured people don't die each year simply because they are uninsured. As I've said before I have to pay taxes anyway and I'd rather they go to assure everyone has equal access to health care than to Blackwater, Hilburton and all the other costs of a war we have no business being involved in. Agree, disagree, attack, ignore I could not care less. It's my opinion and I have more than enough years of experience as a nurse to have pretty much seen it all. "


wow i didnt see this prior to posting on the other article. canadians hate their socialist helath care, at least the ones who have seen ours. terrible drs., drunk nurses, botched procedures. dont even think about a dentist! you ever see a canadians teeth? not pretty.

barack hussein obama and his socialist agenda! heck no BHO. "

john14541 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 7:28 AM:

" Health care and health insurance are expensive. Wait until it's free. "

Phil wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:21 AM:

" Newswatcher and john14541 - watch the Frontline special - it is worth your time. What will you learn:

- You don't need to have a healthcare system that is like the Post Office or IRS to be successful.
- It isn't "free" and everyone knows it.

Again - you WON'T get all the answers when you watch this report, except this one: Our system is very broken compared to these other countries. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:42 AM:

" momofthree wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:51 PM:

" No system is perfect. Of course the Canadian system has problems but ours does too. The biggest problem we have is the 43 million people with no health care...." That is a blatant lie. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:52 AM:

" Phil wrote on Oct 27, 2008 5:02 PM:

" cubbies08 - thanks for the first hand information. I did not realize the Canadian system had reached that point. Great Britian had some similar problems, but has made solid progress in correcting them - but there are still issues.

Again, none of the systems portrayed is perfect - they aren't. But to say ours is the best is to deny reality.

xdfred - you can deny reality all you want, but that doesn't change the truth. I guess having to admit you are wrong on something is just too difficult to swallow. "

1. You don't determine what reality is, superman.
2. I'll admit I'm wrong when someone actually demonstrates that we don't have the best health care system in the world. Your report excludes many of the characteristics that make ours the best. Why do so many people come here for care? All you have to gripe about is that our health care isn't free. Well, free systems crumble. England and Canada are prime examples. Our biggest problem is too much government payout already. That drives up costs. We should buy our own health plans with pre-tax money, and leave the employers out of it. And for those that can't afford the premiums, show hardship and have the state governments cover those. "

Sparkette wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:52 AM:

" Newswatcher, Please re-read your first post. I know you said “many”, but the tone implied “all”. I guess I took it wrong because I know what my family, and many of my friends’ and co-worker’s families are going through. Struggling to be good citizens, only to be lumped with the wrongdoers.

People who need care don’t always get it. The honest people, who always pay their bills, no matter what type of hardship that involves, won’t get that health care, because they can’t pay until after Christmas, or in the Spring when they don’t have heating bills that are so high, etc. Those honest people are the ones that need the help, and they need it now. I would gladly pay more taxes if it would help those people.

There are lowlifes, just as you describe. Unfortunately, most of what they have is the broken welfare system. I know many on our welfare system that live better than I do, have more than I do, and I’m from a two-income household. Your right, it is wrong. They took a right step in giving ‘Debit’ food stamp cards, but that is only one small step. It won’t fix what is wrong; it only puts a band-aide on it.

Maybe Canada’s system isn’t right for us, but I do believe something on that order is the right direction. When people can be denied coverage or worse yet, be told they have coverage, pay their premiums and then have payment for a surgery denied after the fact because the insurance company deemed it a pre-existing condition; the present system is totally broken. We need to lower health insurance and health care costs, and make insurance companies accountable. We need the doctors telling the insurance companies what procedures are necessary, not the other way around – which is how it is now. I’m not looking for free health coverage; I’m looking for fair coverage. "

cf1981 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 9:13 AM:

" We all can agree that this election is over. McCain has run out of time to make any impact on ALL the polling that has Obama ahead big in Iowa and ahead nationwide. Obama is so far ahead in enough states to give him over 300 electoral votes that there is NOTHING McCain can do at this point to win this thing. It's over.

But keep hoping for an 11/4 surprise, conservatives! I'd love for your misguided hopes to be kept alive so they can be crushed on election day! "

Waterloo Reader wrote on Oct 28, 2008 10:20 AM:

" I work for a company with 65,000 employees across the US and a big bunch of retirees that we provide medical benefits for. The word is already out that my company will take advantage of any opportunity to shift the cost of our medical benefits to any government entity it can. We are not the only company in this competitive market that will be doing the same. I'm not happy but I don't blame them as we are a "for-profit" venture. NObama's plan is going to get bull-rushed.

Now if I could just get the government to send me a check every month for my other bills I'd be set. "

plaxibo wrote on Oct 28, 2008 1:08 PM:

" cf it isn't over til its over. Never say something is over when the voting hasn't been done yet. Polls mean nothing and its not smart to put your faith in them. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 28, 2008 1:38 PM:

" cf1981 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 9:13 AM:

" We all can agree that this election is over......" Blah blah blah. -sigh-I'll say it again, no we can't. "

50674 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 3:01 PM:

" The WHO ranks France as number 1 in health care. The USA is ranked 37th. Ok, now show me how the WHO is a biased, right wing, left wing, conservative, moderatem liberal organization. Facts are facts. Health care in the USA needs dramatic reform. Use my tax dollars to help fix it not to fund a war. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 28, 2008 4:04 PM:

" 50674 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 3:01 PM:

" The WHO ranks France as number 1 in health care. The USA is ranked 37th. Ok, now show me how the WHO is a biased, right wing, left wing, conservative, moderatem liberal organization. Facts are facts. Health care in the USA needs dramatic reform. Use my tax dollars to help fix it not to fund a war. " Save your bogus study. Every time there's a severe heat wave or cold wave, more people die in France per capita than here. And yes, it's biased, towards socialized medicine. Next? "

xdfred wrote on Oct 28, 2008 4:21 PM:

" 50674 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 3:01 PM:

" The WHO ranks France as number 1 in health care. The USA is ranked 37th. Ok, now show me how the WHO is a biased, right wing, left wing, conservative, moderatem liberal organization. Facts are facts. Health care in the USA needs dramatic reform. Use my tax dollars to help fix it not to fund a war. " So, where is it written in the Constitution that the government is to pay for or force your employer to pay for your health care costs? It does have a section describing providing for the common defence, but not against the common cold or flu. But that's how politicians buy votes. And that's why costs rise like crazy. "

50674 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 6:06 PM:

" Well xdfred WE are our country and I guess we will see what happens when WE elect our next president. Calling data from WHO "bogus" is as ridiculous as your spelling of defense. I cited my source and yours is ???? More of the same old same old from you. "

momofthree wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:53 PM:

" XFred - you are right. It was a blatant lie on my part! It is actually worse than I thought... please read this from the National Coalition on healthcare: http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml
Actually it is FORTY-SEVEN MILLION AMERICANS WITHOUT INSURANCE!

Of course, you XFred are immune from this. Every one of your family (and friends, if you have any) will always have health insurance, will never develop a chronic health condition, and will never be injured in an accident.

If you knew anything about healthcare, you would know that your health can turn on a dime.

Go Obama/Biden! Only 2 more months and our long national embaressment is over! "

Phil wrote on Oct 28, 2008 10:20 PM:

" 50674 - save your breath - xdfred doesn't need facts, figures, or anything like that. You can't debate with someone who already knows it all.

His party has run the country into the ground, their policies have put our country at risk, bankrupted us, and many other bad things. He and his like minded followers have been proven wrong at every turn, yet it is all the liberals fault.

It is best to ignore him, let him listen to the racist Rush, sicko Sean, and blowhard Bill-o.

Your statistics are valid - his response is ridiculous - like the bully who has no argument, so he tries to win by intimidation. The world is passing him and those like him by. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:28 AM:

" 50674 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 6:06 PM:

" Well xdfred WE are our country and I guess we will see what happens when WE elect our next president. Calling data from WHO "bogus" is as ridiculous as your spelling of defense. I cited my source and yours is ???? More of the same old same old from you. " The data from WHO isn't bogus. The criteria they use is.


momofthree wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:53 PM:

" XFred - you are right. It was a blatant lie on my part! It is actually worse than I thought... please read this from the National Coalition on healthcare: http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml
Actually it is FORTY-SEVEN MILLION AMERICANS WITHOUT INSURANCE!.." Wow. Changed your tune, did you? Before it was without health care. Which is it?

"...If you knew anything about healthcare, you would know that your health can turn on a dime...." Yes I do. And I know I don't want some Obama flunky in charge of my health care. That's my responsibility. I don't need nor want a nanny that takes away my freedoms and assets with one hand and gives me table scraps with the other. And maybe, just maybe, if we didn't have the government or some other 3rd party paying the bills, costs would be lower and we would take better care of ourselves. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:30 AM:

" momofthree wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:53 PM:

"...Of course, you XFred are immune from this. Every one of your family (and friends, if you have any) will always have health insurance, will never develop a chronic health condition, and will never be injured in an accident...." And if your toilet backs up, your car doesn't start, or someone in your home breaks a window, do you want someone else to pay for that, too? "

xdfred wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:35 AM:

" Phil wrote on Oct 28, 2008 10:20 PM:

" 50674 - save your breath - xdfred doesn't need facts, figures, or anything like that. You can't debate with someone who already knows it all...." Glad you're finally coming around.

"...His party has run the country into the ground, their policies have put our country at risk, bankrupted us, and many other bad things...." Not my party, but you can come if you want to.

"...He and his like minded followers have been proven wrong at every turn, yet it is all the liberals fault...." Hardly proven wrong at all. President Bush, for all his faults, will have served two terms. Carter, the socialists socialist, only served one. Why was that?


"....Your statistics are valid - ..." You must kidding
"...his response is ridiculous - like the bully who has no argument, so he tries to win by intimidation. The world is passing him and those like him by. " Dream on. Intimidation? How in the world does one get intimidated on these boards? You characters playing the victim card now? "

xdfred wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:36 AM:

" momofthree wrote on Oct 28, 2008 8:53 PM:

"...Go Obama/Biden! Only 2 more months and our long national embaressment is over!..." Another democrat party hack. Are you folks all in the same office somewhere? "

cf1981 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:26 PM:

" xfred, you post so often on this here blog i have to wonder if you hold any manner of gainful employment. you should give it a try something, you might enjoy the benifits of a steady paycheck and being able to financially support yourself. things you wont be able to do under a palin/mccain administration because they'd shift all remaining jobs in the U.S. off to Asia or Mexico. "

hetfield wrote on Oct 29, 2008 1:07 PM:

" 50674 wrote on Oct 28, 2008 6:06 PM:

" Well xdfred WE are our country and I guess we will see what happens when WE elect our next president. Calling data from WHO "bogus" is as ridiculous as your spelling of defense. I cited my source and yours is ???? More of the same old same old from you. "

5, stop bringing up others speeling errrrors. you are the one who didnt know congress voted for war in iraq. now go forth and vote for your false messiah barack hussein obama. "

cubbies08 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 2:38 PM:

" I don't know what the answer is either in regards to healthcare. I am probably like a lot of people that believe no human being should not have access to proper healtcare. I do agree with whoever posted above that people complain about not being able to afford healtcare insurance yet they drive around in a $30K-$40K vehicle and have big screen TV's. I also have a problem when Doctors make outrageous salaries. I remember a conversation I had several years ago with a friend of mine. I was complaining about how expensive my health insurance was. He was a MD and said he understood..his liability insurance was going through the roof. The difference between myself and him was I got in my rusted out VW Rabbit and drove back to my apartment. He got in his Mercedes and drove to his 4,000 sq foot house. Bottom line is I believe everyone has gotten fat of the healthcare system in this country for a long time. That includes everyone..doctors, hospitals, imaging centers, sales reps for equipment companies, pharmaceuticals, etc. Cost containment needs to become drastic. "

Phil wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:33 PM:

" cubbies08 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 2:38 PM

"Cost containment needs to become drastic"

1. Watch the Frontline special - if you feel this way it is worth your time.

2. Our "free market" system is only working for the people profiting from it - the rest of us are getting ripped off. You see it with your own eyes.

3. Why do you think insurance companies and drug companies don't want the system to change? Doctors who care about patients more than profit want it to change. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:07 PM:

" cf1981 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:26 PM:

" xfred, you post so often on this here blog i have to wonder if you hold any manner of gainful employment. you should give it a try something, you might enjoy the benifits of a steady paycheck and being able to financially support yourself. things you wont be able to do under a palin/mccain administration because they'd shift all remaining jobs in the U.S. off to Asia or Mexico. " Keep wondering. However, if I was unemployed and living off the hard work of others, don't you think I'd be for Barack Hussein Obama and company? So you made a very poor assumption given what you know about my beliefs.
Be that as it may, what's what I do for a living got to do with anything? "

gmaro wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:01 PM:

" 50674 read the Constitution- "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence ...." "

momofthree wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:30 PM:

" This is for everyone wo is sick and tired of XFred's insults and comments.

Remember this interview clip:

Palin asked about the Bush Doctrine... She doesn't know:

GIBSON: Do you agree with the Bush doctrine? PALIN: In what respect, Charlie? GIBSON: The Bush -- well, what do you -- what do you interpret it to be? PALIN: His world view. GIBSON: No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war

From here on, whenever XFred imparts his wisdom, someone should respond with IN WHAT RESPECT, CHARLIE

This will remind XFred of the intelligence behind his candidates. I'll keep track and announce the winner who posts the most IN WHAT RESPECTS, CHARLIE on election night. "

waverly wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:11 PM:

" Speaking of Palin...Did you see who appeared on stage with her at one of her stops......Joe the Plumber.

I Also see that he at one time lived in Alaska....huh....seems kind of odd. I also see that he never had any intention of buying this plumbing business he said he works for.....

He also answered a question from someone in the crowd, that clearly showed he is an idiot....it reminded me of alot of Palins answers....alot of words, no direction or ending.

I am now believing that he was planted there by the republican party to ask Obama the question about taxes.

Seems so funny how Palin is having him appear with her and not johnny boy....HUH wonder if Palin isn't the plumbers helper? "

mantis wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:03 PM:

" Hey momofthree let me remind you of the intelligence behind the other candidates. Obama plans on making it to all 57 states to campaign! Biden said that FDR as president addressed the American people on TV when the stock market crashed. He wasnt president and there wasnt TV yet. Told a man in a wheelchair to stand up. Said Hillary would be a better VP. Shall I continue? I have more really! "

darkstar wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:03 PM:

" Newswatcher you write that many of these people who say they can't afford Health Insurance have;&new TV's, Ipods, computers, cellphones, expensive clothes & shoes, new cars or rims on cars, they get manicures &/or pedicures & expensive haircuts, party like there's no tomorrow, smoke cigs and gamble. But you are still generalizing. I have a used computer that was given to me by a friend. I also have a cellphone but it is my only phone and I prefer it in case I have a medical emergency away from home, and I only pay $45.00 a month for it all the rest of the stuff you list I never see that happening. Thank you motherofthree for sticking up for those who are not using the system! I am 1 of the 1st people to get VERY ANGRY of people using the system because it takes away from those that eally need it. I'll say it again and again; God Forbid anyone who votes for McCain ever gets chronically ill or disabled you will know what I live through every day! I really wish those that think everyone that is "using the system" volunteer someplace and hear backgrounds and their stories. I have 2 college degrees, worked all my life until I became disabled, and paid taxes, etc. I really would prefer to be doing that again but it will never happen. My medical bills would take all my income alone. No, even if I was capable of working, preconditions would make me uneligable for insurance, so I can't buy mw own insurance on my own either. By the way, I don't want anyone feeling sorry for me or pitying me, this isn't what this about. I just want people to try to learn the truth before they go spouting off their mouths. "

cedarvalley1 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:11 PM:

" Is this the same Donna Wood that wrote in article that police officers only carry guns so they can brag about it in the bar? "

sonora wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:50 PM:

" My wife has MS. Is there an insurance company that would insure her oondition under McCain's plan? No. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:06 AM:

" darkstar, then I wasn't writing about you was I? "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:24 AM:

" Obama supporters, let me tell you something you're obviously NOT understanding:
Obama leads you all to believe McCain wants to pull the rug out from underneath all American's with needs.
That is an Obama Elitist innuendo and it it a total complete lie.
McCain wants to stop the bleeding of handouts to people who should be taking care of themselves and their own so we would then HAVE the resources to take care of those who truly need it.
Obama doesn't want you to see this weakness in America, but he keeps promising policy that would feed into it. This only leads to making more and more people dependent on the Government and not truly giving life their best (personal responsibility).

McCain would like to see people who CAN fish, learn how to fish.
Obama wants to just hand people a fish, in exchange for their vote, because this is all about him and his 'dream'.
If you have an illness or a disability, the Democrats are NOT your friends in this scene.
It's a farce!
The truth is this:
The system is supporting far too many people who could actually support themselves (by working), so those of you who really deserve the support suffer the most. Why? Because the Democrats enable them to, it gives them a solid weak-minded support base during elections.
If I were you, I'd be livid at their idiotic approach to 'helping people'.
Don't you get it?
Republican's want those who really DO have needs to receive care, so let's knock off the abusers who rape the system of the funds that would be there for the truly needy.
Democrats want to give more and more yo more and more people every election year.
HINT: IT's NOT WORKING! People are abusing it more now than ever and it will only get worse!
Clean up the mess by electing McCain/Palin as POTUS & VP!
Obama would drive us further into government dependency = That's the whole premise behind his 'Spread the Wealth' and it is clearly a Bad Plan! "

Steady wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Yep, waverly, joe was a plant. Darn how did you figure it out, it has been an inside secret for all this time. We can only hope you don't untwine all our other secrets. Since you have great insight, work next on who assasinated Kennedy or who is making the crop circles.

Did they find joe, buy his house for him, plant a spy into Obama's camp, schedule Obama to walk his neighborhood, get Obama to speak to joe etc. etc. etc.

Bottom line, it does not matter who joe is. The story is not about joe, it is about what Obama said. Obama could have been speaking to a wall, but in that unscripted momment you saw what he believes. IF joe was a plant, which is just far fetched, why did it take a plant to actually see into what Obama believes?

Joe did not plant Obama's response, did he? "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:23 AM:

" Waverly, this is why Obama wants you all to Vote Early, Vote Now, (vote often maybe?)
Because the truth about him is starting to unravel and he doesn't want you to see it, to know the REAL Obama.
That's why he voted Present so many times as Senator = it hides his truth.
Joe has been hammered by you all because he caused OBAMA to spill out his honest goal and Obama regrets every word that slipped. He mocks Joe and yet Obama was supposed to be "above" that type of Politics.
Obama's a liar, a fake and a cheater, but you don't see past the rose-colored glasses you put on while listening to his speeches.
Sad day for America if Obama wins POTUS with his lies, his divisiveness and speeches.
Don't tell me he's not divisive either, he has divided our USA into the Above $200,000 (or is it $250,000, or is it $150,000) and below the $250,000. He has created class warfare between the successful business owners and their employees. He is divisive beyond meaning! You just don't listen and discern the truth from his lies and empty promises. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:24 AM:

" And divisiveness between blacks and whites have not been this strong since 1960's.
Shame on you all for falling for Obama! "

cubbies08 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:48 AM:

" I have to agree with Newswatcher. The McCain plan is not going to let people that really need healthcare just die on the vine. What we are talking about are the millions who for whatever reason choose not to work or spend their budget monies on health insurance. I pay more for my health plan because I chose to have better coverage for my family. This means my budget is cut in other places.
PHIL, I agree we need cost containment but at what price? Do we want the quality to diminish? The AMA is a very large & powerful lobbying group. My bigger concern is as Newswatch says "the people who do not want to fish". Their are a lot of them out there. Not someone who is disabled or cannot work but the ones that choose not to. But why would they. They expect government to find them a job..if they are not working they expect government to pay them unemployment. They expect government to bail them out of their bad real estate decisions, they expect government to provide healtcare for them. They expect government to re train them. The pie is only so big. The money has to come from somewhere. "

darkstar wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:35 AM:

" newswatcher & cubbies08, How is McCain making the decision who still gets help or not. As it is now, 90% of people applying for disability are atuomatically turned down. You have to be a quad. to approved your 1st time you apply.It usually takes over 2 years to be approved for disability. Now what do you do in the meantime? Even with disability try to survive on $800.00/month. Pay rent, utilities, phone, basic cable (no reception here for regular TV besides going digital in Feb.)My splurge is for internet. I also pay a premium to have maedicare. Oh, can't forget renters ins. and car ins. Cost of prescriptions. That alone brings it to roughly $582.00 a month. That leaves $218.00 to pay for gas, groceries, clothing, and any incidentals that happen. Try it sometime. "

oldandgrey wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:58 AM:

" Why does McCain's plan eliminate the tax break that business's get when they provide insurance to their employee's? That is a benefit that helps them attract good people. They should expand this benefit to small business's and to everyone that has to buy their own insurance. If small business owner's could band together and buy insurance at group rates and be able to write off part of the costs on taxes then more people would have insurance. My wife owns a small restaurant with seven employee's, the cost of insurance is too much to afford as it currently is set up. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:08 AM:

" darkstar, you should be LIVID at the Democrats. They are NOT limiting the handouts to those who are fully incapable and unable to work. They are now wanting to give more handouts to everyone, (as ACORN tried to do with homeownership).
If you have NEEDS, you are being raped by the GREEDY who won't ever want to work because Obama is promising to spread the wealth to them.
You see, he won't tell you the whole story yet. That's why it's so interesting that a 'plumber' squeezed the truth out of him.
Your needs could be met much easier if the pie was only for the needy, not the greedy.
And don't tell me those that work their tails off and pay nearly 1/2 of their income in taxes, are the greedy! That's just an assanine LIE from the Democrats. "

cf1981 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:27 PM:

" After reading all the comments, it has become clear that the uninformed McCain supporters will say anything to hold on to their slim sliver of hope that their failed candidate will win next Tuesday. They refuse to recognize logic, reasoning and common sense when placed directly in front of them. I pity them............... "

hetfield wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:02 PM:

" momofthree wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:30 PM:

" This is for everyone wo is sick and tired of XFred's insults and comments.

Remember this interview clip:

Palin asked about the Bush Doctrine... She doesn't know:

GIBSON: Do you agree with the Bush doctrine? PALIN: In what respect, Charlie? GIBSON: The Bush -- well, what do you -- what do you interpret it to be? PALIN: His world view. GIBSON: No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war

From here on, whenever XFred imparts his wisdom, someone should respond with IN WHAT RESPECT, CHARLIE

This will remind XFred of the intelligence behind his candidates. I'll keep track and announce the winner who posts the most IN WHAT RESPECTS, CHARLIE on election night. "



waverly wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:11 PM:

" Speaking of Palin...Did you see who appeared on stage with her at one of her stops......Joe the Plumber.

I Also see that he at one time lived in Alaska....huh....seems kind of odd. I also see that he never had any intention of buying this plumbing business he said he works for.....

He also answered a question from someone in the crowd, that clearly showed he is an idiot....it reminded me of alot of Palins answers....alot of words, no direction or ending.

I am now believing that he was planted there by the republican party to ask Obama the question about taxes.

Seems so funny how Palin is having him appear with her and not johnny boy....HUH wonder if Palin isn't the plumbers helper?


these two are going to be named Pete and Re-Peat.

pete likes to make fun of Palin because she is jealous of this intelligent, beautiful, successful woman. all ugly liberals are jealous of sarah. they know she has done more than them, can always excel at whatever she does, and will always shine brighter then them.

re-peat is a barack hussein obama paid blog flamer! it comes online just to swipe insults about McCain, Palin and all conservatives. it offers no opinion but callous remarks and is very humorous. I love reading Re-peats ridiculous posts as it reminds me of the mindset of the do-nothing, mindless minions barack hussein obama has paid to follow him.

Perhaps you should check with 50674, cf1981, and phil about inane comments! they have been repeatedly slapped around by the good guys, and always resort to insults.

you would think that they all receive two of the same checks every month. one from welfare, and one from barack hussein obama and his pal Wm. Ayers.

well, they will only get their welfare check very soon as barack hussein obama is already defeated!

our momma palin is alot better than your obamamamma! "

xdfred wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:28 PM:

" momofthree wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:30 PM:

" This is for everyone wo is sick and tired of XFred's insults and comments.

Remember this interview clip:

Palin asked about the Bush Doctrine... She doesn't know: ..." Nobody knew, clueless57. Nobody knew what Gibson was talking about since there was no such thing as a Bush doctrine. There still isn't. And it was a dumb question for another reason, clueless57, in that Bush's policies have nothing to do with her being McCain's running mate, ok, clueless57? "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:33 PM:

" cf1981, just what kind of LOGIC is it to elect a POTUS that has absolutely NO leadership experience and has been caught in multiple lies and cheating throughout his campaign?
You believe the Liberal media, is that where your "Logic" comes from?
Wow...
Obama just gives good speeches, that's it. No experience, nadda, nil, zip and you want him as our POTUS?
How's that logic working for you? "

taxpayer wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:31 PM:

" Newswatcher- maybe you can answer a question for me. You say that it is socialism to help others. When are the wealthy going to pay their fair share? When are they going to get off the welfare rolls. Why aren't you complaining about the fact thet your taxes are going to corporate welfare. Businesses and the wealthy want things from the taxpayers in the form of tax abatements, rebates, 1.00 land prices etc... Get off your soap box. I would rather my money go to those who need it than the rich who are constantly standing with their hands out. "

Steady wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:05 PM:

" taxpayer, thanks for being part of the uneducated democrats. You asked when are the wealthy going to pay their fair share?

If the top 5 percent of wage earners pay 60 percent of the federal income tax how are they not paying their "fair share"? Remember this is the group of people that Obama wants to tax even more.

It is the same old song and dance w/ this stupid class warfare stuff by liberals. Liberals preach they are the ones with compassion, but they are only giving with other people's money.

Liberal families earn about 6 percent more than conservative families, yet conservative households donate about 30 percent more to charity than do liberal households.

Vice presidential running mate Joe Biden calls it a matter of "patriotism." Yet when it comes to charitable giving, Biden is not patriotic to donate as much as does the average American household: 2 percent of their adjusted gross income.

Hey liberals, start practice what you're preaching first and then come after those hard earned dollars.

I'll summarize another quote from Roosevelt: Democracy will cease if the public is able to vote themselves a piece of the treasury. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM:

" taxpayer wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:31 PM:

" Newswatcher- maybe you can answer a question for me. You say that it is socialism to help others...." I doubt it's socialism to help others. It is socialism to have the state run everything in the name of pretending to help others.
"...When are the wealthy going to pay their fair share? ..." They already do.
"...When are they going to get off the welfare rolls...." Not on them.
"...Why aren't you complaining about the fact thet your taxes are going to corporate welfare...." They're not.
"...Businesses and the wealthy want things from the taxpayers in the form of tax abatements, rebates, 1.00 land prices etc... Get off your soap box...." A tax cut or tax reduction incentive is way different than actually taking money by force and giving it to somebody else for nothing in return.
"....I would rather my money go to those who need it than the rich who are constantly standing with their hands out....." Feel free to donate all you want. "

xdfred wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:19 PM:

" Sorry Newswatcher. Couldn't help myself. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:49 PM:

" Well, taxpayer, let me tell you this:
I work hard and for every dollar I make, nearly 40 cents goes to the govt. I am self employed, so I pay for my own Health Insurance and hit the $2,500 out of pocket every year by the month of March. I buy nice but used vehicles and don't use credit cards, my house is almost paid off and I put my kids thru college (1 isn't there quite yet).
I could easily quit working and live on hand-outs too. But my spine is stronger than that. Besides that, I'd like to save enough mondy to be able to be a missionary in Africa within the next 10 years.
You people who think we don't pay enough taxes make me want to scream!
These whiney heads that want their health care and/or insurance paid by the govt will someday want their homeowners and car insurance paid for by the govt too.
Stand on your own freaking feet! I did, you can too! So can most of the others.
Then we'll have enough to help those who really CAN'T stand on their own 2 feet.
With Obama's Nightmarish plans, we'll have so many people dependent on the Govt we'll NEVER get them to fish for themselves!
WAKE UP AMERICA, roll up your sleeves and take care of YOURSELF! "

darkstar wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:48 PM:

" To all republicans that say the wealthy are paying more taxes than the middle class or poor: What about the cut off limit to pay into social security after they make over $750,000 (I might me off on the figure and I can't look it up right now? What about the FACT that McCain is drawing social security? He obviously doesn't need it. Don't tell me he paid into and deserves it eithe! "

hetfield wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:33 PM:

" darkstar wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:48 PM:

" To all republicans that say the wealthy are paying more taxes than the middle class or poor: What about the cut off limit to pay into social security after they make over $750,000 (I might me off on the figure and I can't look it up right now? What about the FACT that McCain is drawing social security? He obviously doesn't need it. Don't tell me he paid into and deserves it eithe! "

of course he doenst deserve it! he has only put his life on the line, lived through years of torture and horror as a POW, reisnged with the navy and spent years after Vietnam at the service of his country. Has spent the remaining years a representative and senator of the people of Arizona.

Nay, he dont need nothing. lets redistribute it to you who has never contributed ANYTHING close to what John McCain has.

typical socialist! has no idea what he is talking about. and slothes over barack hussein obama. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:04 PM:

" darkstar,
don't forget, McCain as well as my family give money and items to charity in proportion to our incomes also.
Obama was weak weak weak in this category.
How does he get off by spending 3/4 of a Billion Dollars on a self-promoting informertial and claim to want to help 'spread the wealth'?
His wife had an 'afternoon snack' at her 5 star hotel where the receipt totalled over $400 one afternoon.
These people are fooling the fools!
So, I guess we know what you must be to fall for it. "

Purple Panther wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:43 PM:

" McCain is also drawing veterans benefits too. Tell me that isn't just a bit messed up. Sure, he fought and got shot for them. Not denying that at all. But he draws 50k a year that could be going to our other vets who have lost limbs, suffer from PSTD, etc. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 31, 2008 7:19 AM:

" Clarification of my post at 9:04pm:
Obama didn't spend all of the 3/4 Billion Dollars on his infomercial.
Silly me, he has spend that much on his campaign so far.
Wow, think of all the people he could have helped if it was truly his passion.
His passion is to buy himself the White House.
He lied right out of his mouth that he'd take campaign financing.
He's a liar, time and time again.
I am livid that you all are so uptight about Bush lying, when his lie was built on lies HE was told.
Obama is lying through his teeth every single time and you could care less.
You people who behave this way have some real issues with double standards.
If Obama has been caught in at least 1/2 dozen blatant lies throughout his campaign, what in the blank makes you think he wouldn't lie as a POTUS?
A liar is a liar is a liar.
Obama is a liar. Proven Liar. "

Steady wrote on Oct 31, 2008 7:33 AM:

" Wait, wait, wait. Seriously now purple panther and darkstar are saying McCain doesn't deserve to draw the same benefits as everyone else? If you say McCain shouldn't be drawing veteran benefits, then you are saying NO veteran should be drawing their benefits either. How do you pick and choose which veteran is deserving of their EARNED benefits? If you believe you or government should regulate who deserves or who "gets theirs" then I understand why you are voting for Obama.

This line of thinking is lending you to become a follower. Obama has people thinking they deserve what others have earned. It is dangerous and scary how far Obama will take this country away from what I believe are CORE American values. "

hetfield wrote on Oct 31, 2008 8:00 AM:

" Socialism is alive and well right here in the cedar valley. Darkstar and purplepanther would rather steal mccains well earned monies because he makes more than most!

you people are simply cowards for not standing up for ALL veterans; rich, poor, black, white or indifferant.

America is not built on socialism but on 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.' you work hard, you succeed, you do well, you should not have to give it away past your fair share. just like anyone else!

you misguided people. your opinion is full of falsities and hypocrisies. You folks are alot better off then the homeless living near barack hussein obama's own aunt. Your argument means you have to give up yours for her! for goddness sake, barack hussein obama sure hasnt! and it is his own dear aunt he spoke so well in his first book!

I will leave you with a quote from thomas jefferson "A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."

Socialism is the definition of bad government Jefferson knew of over 200 yrs ago. But now, some freshman senator, known best for voting present in his past post, pretends to know more about the constitution and government than our founding fathers.

Unfortunate, misguided souls the left are. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 31, 2008 8:03 AM:

" The notion that a Veteran of War who was a POW for 5 1/2 years, doesn't deserve his military benefits because he came back to the USA and became a successful man just IRRITATES THE BLANK OUT OF ME!
Who in the hello do you think you are saying such a thing!?!?!?!?
I can now see why you are an Obama supporter. You think anyone who deserves something shouldn't get it if they've worked hard and become successful.
Add to that you think anyone who hasn't worked hard deserves the things that those who DID work hard earned.
Where do you come up with this stuff?

Oh, yeah! It's Obama's thinking! It's Socialism, it's getting worse and worse that you people think it's OK, let alone should be law across our country.

Get off your lazy butts and take care of yourself! "

thinkaboutit wrote on Oct 31, 2008 8:44 AM:

" My sis lived in a socialist country for 1 1/2 years. It is NOT the answer!!! If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. It doesn't make the poor richer, it just makes the rich poorer and the gov't laps up all the profits like a big, fat lazy dog and creats more programs. "

cf1981 wrote on Oct 31, 2008 11:38 AM:

" The closer we get to Election Day, the more frightened the conservative wingnuts become. Notice their long entries, their endless blatherings that have been repeatedly disproven by the media. They repeat McCain's lies and smears because it is all they have left, these tiny illogical shreds of hope that the GOP can cling on to the White House.

Everyone, this election is going to make waves. The GOP is going to be shown the door on so many levels. Obama and a strong Democratic-controlled Congress will enact the real progressive change this country sorely needs and yearns for. Here comes President Obama! "

hetfield wrote on Oct 31, 2008 2:29 PM:

" cf1981 wrote on Oct 31, 2008 11:38 AM:

" The closer we get to Election Day, the more frightened the conservative wingnuts become. Notice their long entries, their endless blatherings that have been repeatedly disproven by the media. They repeat McCain's lies and smears because it is all they have left, these tiny illogical shreds of hope that the GOP can cling on to the White House.

Everyone, this election is going to make waves. The GOP is going to be shown the door on so many levels. Obama and a strong Democratic-controlled Congress will enact the real progressive change this country sorely needs and yearns for. Here comes President Obama! "


cf is a liberal, socialist obamamite who cant stand the thought that barack hussein obama is going down in flames(not literally, and dont call me a racist.) i guess cf wants to raid the pocket book of those who are more successful. what it faisl to consider is that socialism doesnt help anyone, but lowers the middle class to poverty levels. It always has and always does, until it fails miserably.

sorry cf, but go out and earn your own way. dont give your hope to the false messiah barack hussein obama.

it will end badly for you. "

oldandgrey wrote on Oct 31, 2008 3:27 PM:

" All of you republicans want to talk about is Obama's supposed weakness's in policy but not McCain's own healthcare proposal which will put thousands of family's health insurance at risk. Eliminating the tax break for company's who provide health insurance for their employee's will force them to drop health care as a benefit. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 31, 2008 3:35 PM:

" cf1981, Obama has stressed again to not get cocky. Polls are tightening. You probably don't remember Kerry vs Bush?
Didn't think so. "

Newswatcher wrote on Oct 31, 2008 3:51 PM:

" cf1981, give me McCain's lies, right here: now go for it.
Then tell me your excuses for Obama's lies. One by one, oh never mind, there's not time for that, election day is 4 days off. "

hetfield wrote on Oct 31, 2008 6:22 PM:

" cf, you going to the god-childs popstar concert in des moines? it should be good. is he giving out free cookies and haircuts again? that would be good. get free stuff. kind of like barack hussein obamas socialist platform! get free stuff for doing nothing, taking it back from the man! yea, the 60s rocked. talk to ayers, he rocked the town when he lit those bombs off on our country and citizens.

yea, free stuff, bombs, and obama. party! "

darkstar wrote on Oct 31, 2008 7:01 PM:

" I,m not alking about veteran benefits at all. I'm taking about Social Security (retirement) benefits. It's worthless to try to talk to someone who only believes McCains lies. I don't want to take "free money from the goverment". I would be on food stamps and drawing SSI if I was. All I want is my disability and MEPD that I pay for so I have medical insurance. I worked from the time I was 16 until I was disabled so I paid into social security and all other income taxes. I still am since I work about 15 hours a week. That is all I'm able to. If you think I like living like this think again. Why don't look up Medicaid for Employed People with Diaabilities and find out what it is about. "

hetfield wrote on Nov 1, 2008 12:26 AM:

" darkstar wrote on Oct 31, 2008 7:01 PM:

" I,m not alking about veteran benefits at all. I'm taking about Social Security (retirement) benefits. It's worthless to try to talk to someone who only believes McCains lies. I don't want to take "free money from the goverment". I would be on food stamps and drawing SSI if I was. All I want is my disability and MEPD that I pay for so I have medical insurance. I worked from the time I was 16 until I was disabled so I paid into social security and all other income taxes. I still am since I work about 15 hours a week. That is all I'm able to. If you think I like living like this think again. Why don't look up Medicaid for Employed People with Diaabilities and find out what it is about. "


typical leftist! "he dont deserve it, I do" whine, cus, and whine more. McCain deserves his SS just as much as you pal! I would argue more so! he has paid alot more than you, he should get more. but NO not you leftists! socialists ALL.

get off the blogs and use the internet to earn an income! "

Newswatcher wrote on Nov 1, 2008 1:49 AM:

" darkstar, McCain/Palin would help you far more than Obama/Biden.
Obama wants to give handouts to anyone who doesn't want to work, not just the ones who can't.
Don't you GET IT? You'll get squeezed out by able bodied able minded people who could work, but would rather take the govt handouts instead.
This is the stuff that I can't believe you don't look into.
McCain wants to create jobs for workers, Obama wants to create handouts for 'whoever'. That should make you livid if you need the help that you say you need.
Palin would be very instrumental in helping people with special needs and that's not just children either. You haven't looked into her plan because you've had the Obama blinders on!

Why would you benefit from Obama? How could he help you when he wants to help just 'anyone'.?

You're not thinking here, darkstar, you've had too much of the Obama Democrat kookaid. "

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