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Iowa Republicans alienating moderates
By CHARLOTTE EBY
The big tent that had once been the Iowa GOP is now shrinking, leaving little room for moderates who once felt they had a place in the party.
Several signs point to the exile of party moderates here in Iowa, as Republicans try to rebuild their ranks after substantial losses in 2006.
First came the ousting of two prominent Republicans who will represent the state party at the national level.
Iowa Christian Alliance President Steve Scheffler and Iowa Right to Life Executive Director Kim Lehman staged a successful campaign to defeat party insider Steve Roberts and State Rep. Sandy Greiner for spots on the Republican National Committee.
Prominent moderate Republicans, including former Iowa governor Robert Ray and former Lt. Gov. Joy Corning, have expressed their concern about their party's direction.
Corning said the shift to the right has been disheartening to traditional centrist Republicans, some of whom have left the party.
"I think there are moderate Republicans who feel like they have no place to go," she said.
Another sign of the uneasiness of moderate Republicans was the decision by former GOP Congressman Jim Leach to endorse Democrat Barack Obama in the presidential contest.
Leach's endorsement won't win him any friends in his party.
State Sen. David Hartsuch, a Bettendorf Republican who is running for Congress this year, lashed out at Leach and other party moderates during a speech at the Iowa State Fair earlier this month.
Hartsuch earned his seat in the Iowa Senate by knocking off longtime state legislator Maggie Tinsman, known for her moderate record.
Hartsuch's take on Leach and Tinsman?
"They were not Republicans to begin with; they're not Republicans now," he said.
Those are harsh words directed at fellow party members who have together spent decades in public life.
And it's the kind of anger party loyalists direct at each other as they search for a life raft.
Tinsman said she's sick about the direction of the party.
"I think if we're going to be a major party, we have to indeed have a bigger tent," Tinsman said.
In 2006, Iowa Republicans saw Democrats win control of the Iowa Legislature, the governor's mansion as well as pick up two seats in Iowa's congressional delegation.
They might do well to learn from Statehouse Democrats who have toned down their rhetoric and opened up the door of their tent to pro-business candidates and social conservatives.
In contrast, leadership roles in the Iowa GOP have been a revolving door as members look for someone to help lead them out of the dark.
Democrats know what it's like to be out of favor with voters. Only a few short years ago they went through a period of soul-searching as Republicans dominated the Iowa Legislature and the state's Congressional delegation.
Their blueprint for a comeback was a shift to the middle, not a shift to the far extreme of the party.
Iowa Republicans haven't figured that out yet. They're losing people that might typically be their allies --- voters who want lower taxes, smart spending and policies that support business but can't tolerate the party's stances against abortion and gay rights.
Moderates are hoping it won't take another landslide loss like 2006 for the GOP to learn those lessons.
Several signs point to the exile of party moderates here in Iowa, as Republicans try to rebuild their ranks after substantial losses in 2006.
First came the ousting of two prominent Republicans who will represent the state party at the national level.
Iowa Christian Alliance President Steve Scheffler and Iowa Right to Life Executive Director Kim Lehman staged a successful campaign to defeat party insider Steve Roberts and State Rep. Sandy Greiner for spots on the Republican National Committee.
Prominent moderate Republicans, including former Iowa governor Robert Ray and former Lt. Gov. Joy Corning, have expressed their concern about their party's direction.
Corning said the shift to the right has been disheartening to traditional centrist Republicans, some of whom have left the party.
"I think there are moderate Republicans who feel like they have no place to go," she said.
Another sign of the uneasiness of moderate Republicans was the decision by former GOP Congressman Jim Leach to endorse Democrat Barack Obama in the presidential contest.
Leach's endorsement won't win him any friends in his party.
State Sen. David Hartsuch, a Bettendorf Republican who is running for Congress this year, lashed out at Leach and other party moderates during a speech at the Iowa State Fair earlier this month.
Hartsuch earned his seat in the Iowa Senate by knocking off longtime state legislator Maggie Tinsman, known for her moderate record.
Hartsuch's take on Leach and Tinsman?
"They were not Republicans to begin with; they're not Republicans now," he said.
Those are harsh words directed at fellow party members who have together spent decades in public life.
And it's the kind of anger party loyalists direct at each other as they search for a life raft.
Tinsman said she's sick about the direction of the party.
"I think if we're going to be a major party, we have to indeed have a bigger tent," Tinsman said.
In 2006, Iowa Republicans saw Democrats win control of the Iowa Legislature, the governor's mansion as well as pick up two seats in Iowa's congressional delegation.
They might do well to learn from Statehouse Democrats who have toned down their rhetoric and opened up the door of their tent to pro-business candidates and social conservatives.
In contrast, leadership roles in the Iowa GOP have been a revolving door as members look for someone to help lead them out of the dark.
Democrats know what it's like to be out of favor with voters. Only a few short years ago they went through a period of soul-searching as Republicans dominated the Iowa Legislature and the state's Congressional delegation.
Their blueprint for a comeback was a shift to the middle, not a shift to the far extreme of the party.
Iowa Republicans haven't figured that out yet. They're losing people that might typically be their allies --- voters who want lower taxes, smart spending and policies that support business but can't tolerate the party's stances against abortion and gay rights.
Moderates are hoping it won't take another landslide loss like 2006 for the GOP to learn those lessons.
More Stories from Columnists » Eby
Phil wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:15 PM:
" If George Bush, Tom Delay, Dick Cheney, David Hartsuch, etc. represent the core beliefs of the current Republican party then they will need to get used to being the minorty party. Even former President Eisenhower's descendants are leaving the party. "
(return of) joe wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:24 PM:
" conservativeme perfectly illustrates the modern, fascist wing of conservatism today. Who cares who we irk, as long as we hold strong. Well, how's that been working lately? "
jeroze wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:50 PM:
" Iowa Republicans in our city are very little informed about the group of conservatives that were called the Project for the New American Century. This think tank organize back in the mid 1990s. The adopted principles of taking a bold and almost bully approach (in the likeness of Reagan) toward all the other nations. The were labeled neocons. They included Jeb Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfowitch, Richard Armitage, William
Bennett, Elliot Abrams., John Bolton, and Robert Kagan just to name a few. These are the people who took a position that Iraq needed a regime change regardless of the means necessary to accomplish it.
This group had a Website until about June this year and then they were removed for lack of payments for their website. There are reports on the web that they went out without a whimper about December 2006.
I am very pleased to know this. And I would very much like to see the G O P cleanse their whole party of such bellicose groups.
It would be good to see a G O P that actually could balance a budget and make conservative compassion more than being very conservative in showing compassion.
I hope the United States People will put their protest into the voting process by electing an overwhelming majority of real compassionate people to the senate and the house of representatives and confirm the message that we want change.
Specifically, away with bullyism, and in with diplomacy and peaceful negotiations. "
Bennett, Elliot Abrams., John Bolton, and Robert Kagan just to name a few. These are the people who took a position that Iraq needed a regime change regardless of the means necessary to accomplish it.
This group had a Website until about June this year and then they were removed for lack of payments for their website. There are reports on the web that they went out without a whimper about December 2006.
I am very pleased to know this. And I would very much like to see the G O P cleanse their whole party of such bellicose groups.
It would be good to see a G O P that actually could balance a budget and make conservative compassion more than being very conservative in showing compassion.
I hope the United States People will put their protest into the voting process by electing an overwhelming majority of real compassionate people to the senate and the house of representatives and confirm the message that we want change.
Specifically, away with bullyism, and in with diplomacy and peaceful negotiations. "
stenny1963 wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:59 PM:
" No Joe!!! conservativeme represents a person who stands by his beliefs unlike the democrats who stand for whichever the wind is blowing.unfortunately the republicans have also been trying to run as democrats lately and have been crushed at the polls.Me for one is glad to see my party trying to return to its core values. "
Phil wrote on Aug 25, 2008 4:29 PM:
" I didn't know pre-emptive war, record budget deficits, bigger government, repeal of individual freedoms and rights, exploiting natural resources, suppressing voter turnout, etc. were some of the core values of conservatives.
I have a feeling Eishower is spinning in his grave upon getting the news. "
I have a feeling Eishower is spinning in his grave upon getting the news. "
MrT wrote on Aug 26, 2008 9:12 AM:
" Stenny. as a "lib", I too am glad that your party is your party trying to return to its core values. Those core values are ones that the American people and Iowans specifically don't agree with. Your national party is dying and your state party is going to be losing big time... heck your party leader is probably out. Mainly because of that push towards "true conservatism." "
JR wrote on Aug 26, 2008 9:22 AM:
" I thought Leach's speech at the Dem Convention was brilliant, but like most of the speeches, CNN ignored it. You can read it here:
http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/08/25/full-text-former-us-rep-jim-leach-speech-to-democratic-national-convention/ "
http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/08/25/full-text-former-us-rep-jim-leach-speech-to-democratic-national-convention/ "
igottone wrote on Aug 26, 2008 10:47 AM:
" Repubs, can blame one person for the single handed destruction of your party accross this country. GW. "
conservativeme wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:39 AM:
" Phil, I said core beliefs of "conservatives". No mention was made of the current administration who have let us down on many issues. "
jeroze wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:41 AM:
" Thank you JR for the chance to read the full text of the Jim Leach speech.
I was very dissapointed last evening with the attitude expressed on CNN by Carvill, Gergen, and Toobin and by CNN's cutting away from the Leach speech. I feel like saying "Shame, Shame" to them.
Had there been a Bush bashing and a Mc Cain bashing they would have accused OBama of being a hypocrite. What is the matter with CNN is also what the matter of the USA? We expect everything to be a battleground of nasty remarks. I say let Fox Network call for that since they are so good about it, not CNN. Let C N N stand for Clean Network News. "
I was very dissapointed last evening with the attitude expressed on CNN by Carvill, Gergen, and Toobin and by CNN's cutting away from the Leach speech. I feel like saying "Shame, Shame" to them.
Had there been a Bush bashing and a Mc Cain bashing they would have accused OBama of being a hypocrite. What is the matter with CNN is also what the matter of the USA? We expect everything to be a battleground of nasty remarks. I say let Fox Network call for that since they are so good about it, not CNN. Let C N N stand for Clean Network News. "
conservativeme wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:41 AM:
" ol joe loves to throw the "fascist" buzz word out, but offers little else. We irk liberals and we are doing fine, thanks. "
conservativeme wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:45 AM:
" and I am sorry Jeroze, but neocon and true conservatives are far apart on the issues. We would love to see a balanced budget and smaller government as well. But a balenced budget by cutting spending, not more taxes and fees as in the past. "
conservativeme wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:48 AM:
" Mr T, then as a true lib, you have no concept of what a true conservative is. "
conservativeme wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 AM:
" In the latest Battleground poll: “When thinking about politics and government, do you consider yourself to be…
.... Americans answered that question this way: (1) 20% of Americans considered themselves to be very conservative; (2) 40% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat conservative; (3) 2% of Americans considered themselves to be moderate; (4) 27% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat liberal; (5) 9% of Americans considered themselves to be very liberal; and (6) 3% of Americans did not know or refused to answer. "
.... Americans answered that question this way: (1) 20% of Americans considered themselves to be very conservative; (2) 40% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat conservative; (3) 2% of Americans considered themselves to be moderate; (4) 27% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat liberal; (5) 9% of Americans considered themselves to be very liberal; and (6) 3% of Americans did not know or refused to answer. "
timbrackett wrote on Aug 26, 2008 12:35 PM:
" conservatives are doing fine? how?
their party is in dis-array? their leader (W) engineered massive spending and and an ever-ballooning budget deficit over the past seven and a half years. the presumptive nominee from the GOP is one of the most liberal republicans in recent memory. running on the conservative agenda lost them control of the house and senate in '06. their bedfellows of the past 25+ years, the evangelicals, are leaving the party in droves--especially the evangelicals under the age of 30.
remind me again how the conservatives are doing fine? "
their party is in dis-array? their leader (W) engineered massive spending and and an ever-ballooning budget deficit over the past seven and a half years. the presumptive nominee from the GOP is one of the most liberal republicans in recent memory. running on the conservative agenda lost them control of the house and senate in '06. their bedfellows of the past 25+ years, the evangelicals, are leaving the party in droves--especially the evangelicals under the age of 30.
remind me again how the conservatives are doing fine? "
Phil wrote on Aug 26, 2008 12:35 PM:
" conservativeme - many Americans do consider themselves somewhat conservative - even I do on some issues and in regards to personal lifestyle. However the same type of polling when done on the major issues of the day finds that most Americans agree with the Democrats - positions that aren't really conservative - not exactly liberal, but definitely not conservative.
Even I consider myself as much or more a libertarian on many issues as I do a moderate or liberal. "
Even I consider myself as much or more a libertarian on many issues as I do a moderate or liberal. "
jeroze wrote on Aug 26, 2008 1:20 PM:
" conservative me--I would agree with the cutting of spending, especially the annual $60 billion that are spent for maintaining and replacing outdated weapons and maintaining the overkill of nuclear warheads. "
wcf reader wrote on Aug 26, 2008 3:59 PM:
" man, there are some real hypocrites on here. its amazing how you can twist anything you want to make it in your favor...
i think most would believe the govts. role should be limited, that taxes should be kept to a minimum, and that people should be held accountable for their actions. "
i think most would believe the govts. role should be limited, that taxes should be kept to a minimum, and that people should be held accountable for their actions. "
xdfred wrote on Aug 26, 2008 5:00 PM:
" This is priceless. Eby and others lament that the republican party is hurting because it isn't "moderate". Where's the "moderate" in the democrat party?
The republican party, both at the state, and local level, suffer from being too liberal and too compromising. That's the lesson to be learned. Look at the ares of the country that Democrats control. Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco. Is that what the rest of us want? Well, that's what compromise and getting along for the sake of getting along will get you. When do democrats ever compromise? "
The republican party, both at the state, and local level, suffer from being too liberal and too compromising. That's the lesson to be learned. Look at the ares of the country that Democrats control. Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco. Is that what the rest of us want? Well, that's what compromise and getting along for the sake of getting along will get you. When do democrats ever compromise? "
xdfred wrote on Aug 26, 2008 5:07 PM:
" Jeroze the peacemaker:
"....Specifically, away with bullyism, and in with diplomacy and peaceful negotiations..... " Obviously you've never faced the business end of an AK47.
Who pushed for regime change in Iraq in the late 90's? Clinton(s), Kerry, etc.......
Who voted authorization for the military action? Was it just republicans?
Have Islamist terrorists successfully attacked our nation since 9/11? Is it because they no longer feel like trying?
You always want to cut defence spending for weapons. Do you have a gun free zone sign in front of your house? You seem to want to put one on our country. "
"....Specifically, away with bullyism, and in with diplomacy and peaceful negotiations..... " Obviously you've never faced the business end of an AK47.
Who pushed for regime change in Iraq in the late 90's? Clinton(s), Kerry, etc.......
Who voted authorization for the military action? Was it just republicans?
Have Islamist terrorists successfully attacked our nation since 9/11? Is it because they no longer feel like trying?
You always want to cut defence spending for weapons. Do you have a gun free zone sign in front of your house? You seem to want to put one on our country. "
xdfred wrote on Aug 26, 2008 6:03 PM:
" Phil
wrote on Aug 25, 2008 4:29 PM:
" I didn't know pre-emptive war," You mean the one that started when Iraq invaded Kuwait?
"record budget deficits, bigger government," Agreed, republicans acting like democrats
"repeal of individual freedoms and rights, " Which party wants to disarm us? Which party tries to tell us when we can't pray? Which party takes away the right to life of the unborn? What rights and freedoms have you lost? No hearsay.
"exploiting natural resources," We're supposed to. But exploiting and destroying are towo different things. Exploiting a forest for lumber does not necessarily mean destroying it. In fact, not exploiting lumber resources leads to more and bigger forest fires.
" suppressing voter turnout," Prove it. Baseless charge. Unless you mean southern democrats suppressing the black vote. "
wrote on Aug 25, 2008 4:29 PM:
" I didn't know pre-emptive war," You mean the one that started when Iraq invaded Kuwait?
"record budget deficits, bigger government," Agreed, republicans acting like democrats
"repeal of individual freedoms and rights, " Which party wants to disarm us? Which party tries to tell us when we can't pray? Which party takes away the right to life of the unborn? What rights and freedoms have you lost? No hearsay.
"exploiting natural resources," We're supposed to. But exploiting and destroying are towo different things. Exploiting a forest for lumber does not necessarily mean destroying it. In fact, not exploiting lumber resources leads to more and bigger forest fires.
" suppressing voter turnout," Prove it. Baseless charge. Unless you mean southern democrats suppressing the black vote. "
hetfield wrote on Aug 26, 2008 7:56 PM:
" charlotte must be trying out for a larger market mainstream media position. she sounds like the same talking heads and AP writers out there who proclaim barack hussein obama as the messiah.
the right does not need the left to try to tell us who to ignore or include. in fact, it is the left that pooh poohs all others who dont support the same, gay marriage, abortion rules, huge governement, handouts, etc.. mantra.
it is the independents and the Bilary lovers out there that will hand an easy win to McCain in november. leftists will sit around another 4 years figuring out how to promote another absolutely ridiculous candidate for president. This is their MO and we see nothing saying it will change anytime soon. "
the right does not need the left to try to tell us who to ignore or include. in fact, it is the left that pooh poohs all others who dont support the same, gay marriage, abortion rules, huge governement, handouts, etc.. mantra.
it is the independents and the Bilary lovers out there that will hand an easy win to McCain in november. leftists will sit around another 4 years figuring out how to promote another absolutely ridiculous candidate for president. This is their MO and we see nothing saying it will change anytime soon. "
Phil wrote on Aug 26, 2008 9:46 PM:
" xdfred - "prove it" seems to be your new favorite phrase - guess you gave up the "time to drill" one?
Get real, the evidence for these things is everywhere. How many people were purged off the voter rolls in Florida before 2000? Thousands.
And let's see, you're really trying to say that we invaded Iraq this last time because of Kuwait? And yes Iraq was wrong to invade to Kuwait - illegal - war crimes - all those things. So that makes it right for us to do it also? Good grief.
Try to make an argument once in awhile that is supported by either facts or reality.
Here's an idea for you - prove it the next time you make a post. Show some stats, direct links to reliable, non-partisan (not right wing) sources.
Of course then you wouldn't be able to post, would you? "
Get real, the evidence for these things is everywhere. How many people were purged off the voter rolls in Florida before 2000? Thousands.
And let's see, you're really trying to say that we invaded Iraq this last time because of Kuwait? And yes Iraq was wrong to invade to Kuwait - illegal - war crimes - all those things. So that makes it right for us to do it also? Good grief.
Try to make an argument once in awhile that is supported by either facts or reality.
Here's an idea for you - prove it the next time you make a post. Show some stats, direct links to reliable, non-partisan (not right wing) sources.
Of course then you wouldn't be able to post, would you? "
jeroze wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:19 PM:
" Hetfield, I not sure what prompted the statements against peacemakers and pacifists. The $60 billion spent on the outdated "cold war" weapons has to do with wasteful spending and taxes.
To be against bullying is not pacificism. It is about something that creates injustice and causes hatred.
I am also wondering about what brought up your comment on Islamic terrorism
not happening since 9/11. Why do they want to attack us in the USA when we have sent our people to Iraq where the terrorists have killed more Americans than they did on 9/11.
Finally, cutting out the waste in our spending on weapons does not leave us gunless or tankless or soldierless. $60 Billion is what we waste, and that is only approximately 1/7 of the budget.
I think that this will explain why I don't understand why you wrote what you did. I think it was irrelevant. But maybe you feel better now. If so then it was helpful to you. But I wanted to make the point that we are talking about wasting our taxes on something that is not doing our military one dollars worth of good to win a war or protect their lives. How do you justify the waste? "
To be against bullying is not pacificism. It is about something that creates injustice and causes hatred.
I am also wondering about what brought up your comment on Islamic terrorism
not happening since 9/11. Why do they want to attack us in the USA when we have sent our people to Iraq where the terrorists have killed more Americans than they did on 9/11.
Finally, cutting out the waste in our spending on weapons does not leave us gunless or tankless or soldierless. $60 Billion is what we waste, and that is only approximately 1/7 of the budget.
I think that this will explain why I don't understand why you wrote what you did. I think it was irrelevant. But maybe you feel better now. If so then it was helpful to you. But I wanted to make the point that we are talking about wasting our taxes on something that is not doing our military one dollars worth of good to win a war or protect their lives. How do you justify the waste? "
wcf reader wrote on Aug 27, 2008 8:41 AM:
" phil, seems like the pot is calling the kettle black to me! "
xdfred wrote on Aug 27, 2008 11:02 AM:
" Phil
wrote on Aug 26, 2008 9:46 PM:
" xdfred - "prove it" seems to be your new favorite phrase - guess you gave up the "time to drill" one?
Get real, the evidence for these things is everywhere. How many people were purged off the voter rolls in Florida before 2000? Thousands." But was it illegal to do so? Or were they on there illegally to begin with? See, you suffer from the democrats win or republicans cheat syndrome. You think the press and the DNC would have kept quiet if genuine voter fraud took place? That's why I say prove it, because that is totally baseless charge. You, as a typical liberal, like to make unfounded accusations. As to when the war started, think about it. Iraq invades Kuwait. Our armed forces in conjunction with others throw them out. The conflict ends with an agreement by Iraq to behave itself. They violate the agreement countless times as shown in the dozen or so UN resolutions. How are ceasefires supposed to be enforced? How are violations supposed to be punished? By yelling stop again?
I'll ask again, Phil, what rights and freedoms have you lost due to the present administration? I'll answer for you. NONE! "
wrote on Aug 26, 2008 9:46 PM:
" xdfred - "prove it" seems to be your new favorite phrase - guess you gave up the "time to drill" one?
Get real, the evidence for these things is everywhere. How many people were purged off the voter rolls in Florida before 2000? Thousands." But was it illegal to do so? Or were they on there illegally to begin with? See, you suffer from the democrats win or republicans cheat syndrome. You think the press and the DNC would have kept quiet if genuine voter fraud took place? That's why I say prove it, because that is totally baseless charge. You, as a typical liberal, like to make unfounded accusations. As to when the war started, think about it. Iraq invades Kuwait. Our armed forces in conjunction with others throw them out. The conflict ends with an agreement by Iraq to behave itself. They violate the agreement countless times as shown in the dozen or so UN resolutions. How are ceasefires supposed to be enforced? How are violations supposed to be punished? By yelling stop again?
I'll ask again, Phil, what rights and freedoms have you lost due to the present administration? I'll answer for you. NONE! "
xdfred wrote on Aug 27, 2008 11:04 AM:
" Jeroze the accountant: "...But I wanted to make the point that we are talking about wasting our taxes on something that is not doing our military one dollars worth of good to win a war or protect their lives. How do you justify the waste? ..." If that is indeed a case of pure waste, I agree. It needs to be stopped. "
conservativeme wrote on Aug 27, 2008 12:24 PM:
" tim buddy, nothing you wrote had anything to do with conservative ideals. When Republicans try to act like democrats, they will lose every time because you can't beat a liberal by being more liberal. They are just too good at it. The 2006 backlash had little do to with a conservative agenda, since that crop of Republicans in office did little to show us anything but a liberal agenda of bigger government and more spending.
And for the record, both parties are in disarray with the liberal and conservative factions at odds with the moderates of both. Obama and Hillary scars won't heal as fast as they might hope and McCain is still trying to assure us that he is conservative on the issues that count. "
And for the record, both parties are in disarray with the liberal and conservative factions at odds with the moderates of both. Obama and Hillary scars won't heal as fast as they might hope and McCain is still trying to assure us that he is conservative on the issues that count. "
jeroze wrote on Aug 27, 2008 1:13 PM:
" Xdfred, I was quoting a report by Dr. Lawrence J. Korb, Former Assistant Secretary of Defense in the Reagan Administration entitled The Korb Report: A Realistic Defense for America. The report gives over $70 billion of wasted spending so that would make my first claim of $60 billion a conservative number. "
xdfred wrote on Aug 27, 2008 6:28 PM:
" jeroze
wrote on Aug 27, 2008 1:13 PM:
" Xdfred, I was quoting a report by ..." Believe it or not, I was agreeing with you. There is no incentive for any government agency to save money. None whatsoever. Ever hear of a temporary government program?
Our military needs to be strong. Why? We are a prosperous nation, and there are those that would steal from prosperous nations. "
wrote on Aug 27, 2008 1:13 PM:
" Xdfred, I was quoting a report by ..." Believe it or not, I was agreeing with you. There is no incentive for any government agency to save money. None whatsoever. Ever hear of a temporary government program?
Our military needs to be strong. Why? We are a prosperous nation, and there are those that would steal from prosperous nations. "
hetfield wrote on Aug 27, 2008 8:38 PM:
" jeroze
wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:19 PM:
" Hetfield, I not sure what prompted the statements against peacemakers and pacifists. The $60 billion spent on the outdated "cold war" weapons has to do with wasteful spending and taxes.
To be against bullying is not pacificism. It is about something that creates injustice and causes hatred.
I am also wondering about what brought up your comment on Islamic terrorism
not happening since 9/11. Why do they want to attack us in the USA when we have sent our people to Iraq where the terrorists have killed more Americans than they did on 9/11.
Finally, cutting out the waste in our spending on weapons does not leave us gunless or tankless or soldierless. $60 Billion is what we waste, and that is only approximately 1/7 of the budget.
I think that this will explain why I don't understand why you wrote what you did. I think it was irrelevant. But maybe you feel better now. If so then it was helpful to you. But I wanted to make the point that we are talking about wasting our taxes on something that is not doing our military one dollars worth of good to win a war or protect their lives. How do you justify the waste?
huh? were you responding to me or someone else? "
wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:19 PM:
" Hetfield, I not sure what prompted the statements against peacemakers and pacifists. The $60 billion spent on the outdated "cold war" weapons has to do with wasteful spending and taxes.
To be against bullying is not pacificism. It is about something that creates injustice and causes hatred.
I am also wondering about what brought up your comment on Islamic terrorism
not happening since 9/11. Why do they want to attack us in the USA when we have sent our people to Iraq where the terrorists have killed more Americans than they did on 9/11.
Finally, cutting out the waste in our spending on weapons does not leave us gunless or tankless or soldierless. $60 Billion is what we waste, and that is only approximately 1/7 of the budget.
I think that this will explain why I don't understand why you wrote what you did. I think it was irrelevant. But maybe you feel better now. If so then it was helpful to you. But I wanted to make the point that we are talking about wasting our taxes on something that is not doing our military one dollars worth of good to win a war or protect their lives. How do you justify the waste?
huh? were you responding to me or someone else? "
hetfield wrote on Aug 27, 2008 8:40 PM:
" timbrackett
wrote on Aug 26, 2008 12:35 PM:
" conservatives are doing fine? how?
their party is in dis-array? their leader (W) engineered massive spending and and an ever-ballooning budget deficit over the past seven and a half years. the presumptive nominee from the GOP is one of the most liberal republicans in recent memory. running on the conservative agenda lost them control of the house and senate in '06. their bedfellows of the past 25+ years, the evangelicals, are leaving the party in droves--especially the evangelicals under the age of 30.
remind me again how the conservatives are doing fine? "
again, huh? you actually believe these things? go ahead, feel warm and fuzzy about your candidate, barach hussein obama. "
wrote on Aug 26, 2008 12:35 PM:
" conservatives are doing fine? how?
their party is in dis-array? their leader (W) engineered massive spending and and an ever-ballooning budget deficit over the past seven and a half years. the presumptive nominee from the GOP is one of the most liberal republicans in recent memory. running on the conservative agenda lost them control of the house and senate in '06. their bedfellows of the past 25+ years, the evangelicals, are leaving the party in droves--especially the evangelicals under the age of 30.
remind me again how the conservatives are doing fine? "
again, huh? you actually believe these things? go ahead, feel warm and fuzzy about your candidate, barach hussein obama. "
cire wrote on Aug 27, 2008 11:26 PM:
" does this article have a point? or is this just an opinionated rant by another liberal writer (Charlotte Eby) posting an extremely biased article..
is this a joke..? "
is this a joke..? "
timbrackett wrote on Aug 28, 2008 1:41 AM:
" conservativeme...i wasn't discussing conservative ideals. i was merely answering the statement that conservatives are doing fine. any un-biased observer would agree that the conservatives are not doing fine.
as for 2006, the republicans lost because the democrats promised to get us out of iraq. the democrats failed (which is not an indictment of individual democrats in the house and senate, but the leadership of those bodies and the party as a whole). to say the gop lost ground in 2006 because they were trying to be like democrats is incorrect.
hetfield...yes, i do believe what i said because the numbers back me up. when you come at me with facts to dis-prove my assertion i'll look at your facts and if i am wrong i will admit to it. "
as for 2006, the republicans lost because the democrats promised to get us out of iraq. the democrats failed (which is not an indictment of individual democrats in the house and senate, but the leadership of those bodies and the party as a whole). to say the gop lost ground in 2006 because they were trying to be like democrats is incorrect.
hetfield...yes, i do believe what i said because the numbers back me up. when you come at me with facts to dis-prove my assertion i'll look at your facts and if i am wrong i will admit to it. "
jeroze wrote on Aug 28, 2008 8:45 AM:
" Sorry, Hetfield, I apologize. It was xdfred to whom I was replying and xdfred made a reply. Thank you both. "
Phil wrote on Aug 28, 2008 10:41 AM:
" xdfred - first, my rights have not YET been violated, but they could be. Rights such as habeus corpus. The president can declare anyone a terrorist or enemy combatant just cause he wants to and lock us up without access to an attorney - just cause he says so. Ridiculous.
Second, guess old Saddam hadn't violated those UN resolutions after all - which the weapons inspectors were on their way to proving until Bush threw them out.
Don't you know what goes on in the world heffield? These things have all been reported and documented a long, long time ago. "
Second, guess old Saddam hadn't violated those UN resolutions after all - which the weapons inspectors were on their way to proving until Bush threw them out.
Don't you know what goes on in the world heffield? These things have all been reported and documented a long, long time ago. "
xdfred wrote on Aug 28, 2008 1:39 PM:
" Phil
wrote on Aug 28, 2008 10:41 AM:
" xdfred - first, my rights have not YET been violated....." Mine have. The so called assualt weapon ban. Handgun bans in major, crime ridden cites. gun free zones. Attacks on religious freedom. Yes, mine have. By liberals. Don't whine about what might happen. It never fails, does it? Baseless accusatons, and nothing.
"The president can declare anyone a terrorist or enemy combatant just cause he wants to and lock us up without access to an attorney" And this is new? Presidnet Bush has been in office for almost 8 years. Has he abused this to go after political foes? I'll answer for you. No.
"...Second, guess old Saddam hadn't violated those UN resolutions after all..." Yes he did.
"... - which the weapons inspectors were on their way to proving until Bush threw them out...." Saddam threw them out, numerous times. And had his SAM crews fire missiles at our planes, and tried to buy uranium ore. The list is well documented. I'm very impressed by the type of person you would stick up for. Speaks volumes. BTW, your dear friend did get a trial before he was hanged, unlike his thousands of victims. They did find the bodies. "
wrote on Aug 28, 2008 10:41 AM:
" xdfred - first, my rights have not YET been violated....." Mine have. The so called assualt weapon ban. Handgun bans in major, crime ridden cites. gun free zones. Attacks on religious freedom. Yes, mine have. By liberals. Don't whine about what might happen. It never fails, does it? Baseless accusatons, and nothing.
"The president can declare anyone a terrorist or enemy combatant just cause he wants to and lock us up without access to an attorney" And this is new? Presidnet Bush has been in office for almost 8 years. Has he abused this to go after political foes? I'll answer for you. No.
"...Second, guess old Saddam hadn't violated those UN resolutions after all..." Yes he did.
"... - which the weapons inspectors were on their way to proving until Bush threw them out...." Saddam threw them out, numerous times. And had his SAM crews fire missiles at our planes, and tried to buy uranium ore. The list is well documented. I'm very impressed by the type of person you would stick up for. Speaks volumes. BTW, your dear friend did get a trial before he was hanged, unlike his thousands of victims. They did find the bodies. "
stenny1963 wrote on Aug 28, 2008 2:07 PM:
" I would have to disagree with you tim.the republicans lost in 2006 because they were trying to run as watered down democrats.thats the same reason why the dems were getting crushed years ago was because they were running as watered down republicans.The dems have gone back to their core principals of government can provide everything for everyone no matter what the cost.The repubs also tried to run on this philosophyalthough watered down and they were met with defeat because their was no difference betyween the parties.In politics if you can't energise your base youre gonna get beat.This is why the repubs have to go back to conservatism 101 and stand strong.sooner or later we'll get sick of getting taxed to our eyeballs and our military in the hands of the UN and babies being killed hours before birth and then our core principles will take over once again. "
timbrackett wrote on Aug 28, 2008 3:06 PM:
" all kinds of polling data from every source shows me to be correct on '06. believe what you will, but facts usually trump all. the only people who think the gop lost in '06 because they were too moderate are conservatives who have twisted the truth in an attempt to regain a foot hold in their own party. admirable, but incorrect. "
xdfred wrote on Aug 28, 2008 4:02 PM:
" timbrackett
wrote on Aug 28, 2008 3:06 PM:
" all kinds of polling data from every source shows me to be correct on '06. ....party. admirable, but incorrect. " Who can argue with polling data. Then again, polling data and fact are two totally different things. What are the questions asked, who are they asked to, etc. According to '04 polling data, Kerry should have won by a landslide. "
wrote on Aug 28, 2008 3:06 PM:
" all kinds of polling data from every source shows me to be correct on '06. ....party. admirable, but incorrect. " Who can argue with polling data. Then again, polling data and fact are two totally different things. What are the questions asked, who are they asked to, etc. According to '04 polling data, Kerry should have won by a landslide. "
timbrackett wrote on Aug 28, 2008 8:14 PM:
" oh, i forgot that conservatives don't trust polling numbers unless limbaugh personally approves them. my bad... "
Phil wrote on Aug 29, 2008 9:09 AM:
" xdfred- so in other words your rights have not been violated - other than in your imagination.
And yes Bush has done this to other people - people now admitedly in our offshore prison in Cuba who even the Bush administration now admit are innocent.
And speaking of your imagination, how many old theories about Saddam, now long disproved - like buying uranium, are you going to keep bringing up. "
And yes Bush has done this to other people - people now admitedly in our offshore prison in Cuba who even the Bush administration now admit are innocent.
And speaking of your imagination, how many old theories about Saddam, now long disproved - like buying uranium, are you going to keep bringing up. "
xdfred wrote on Aug 29, 2008 10:38 AM:
" Phil
wrote on Aug 29, 2008 9:09 AM:
" xdfred- so in other words your rights have not been violated - other than in your imagination.
Was I imagining the unconstitutional Assault Weapon's ban passed in 1992? Are gun free zones imaginary? Can students or teachers pray at school? Imagination? That's all you have?
"And yes Bush has done this to other people..." And you know this how? Gtmo detainees that were released were not proven innocent. And many have been caught again taking up arms against the US, in violation of parole agreements.
"....how many old theories about Saddam, now long disproved - like buying uranium..." Never been disproved. British intelligence stands by those claims.
Moveon.org, huh? "
wrote on Aug 29, 2008 9:09 AM:
" xdfred- so in other words your rights have not been violated - other than in your imagination.
Was I imagining the unconstitutional Assault Weapon's ban passed in 1992? Are gun free zones imaginary? Can students or teachers pray at school? Imagination? That's all you have?
"And yes Bush has done this to other people..." And you know this how? Gtmo detainees that were released were not proven innocent. And many have been caught again taking up arms against the US, in violation of parole agreements.
"....how many old theories about Saddam, now long disproved - like buying uranium..." Never been disproved. British intelligence stands by those claims.
Moveon.org, huh? "
timbrackett wrote on Aug 31, 2008 3:10 PM:
" why isn't ron paul being allowed to speak at the rnc? the republicans are missing the boat on this one, because ron paul can bring a lot of the youth vote to the polls in november.
not inviting ron paul to speak at the rnc is another example of why this article is correct and why younger adults like myself have forsaken the republican party. "
not inviting ron paul to speak at the rnc is another example of why this article is correct and why younger adults like myself have forsaken the republican party. "
conservativeme wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:00 PM:
" Ron Paul may be a lot of things, but a draw for the moderate voter, he is not. If voting to make sure that Obama is not our next president isn't enough to get out young voters, they can suffer along with the rest of us if he wins. "
timbrackett wrote on Sep 2, 2008 11:33 PM:
" conservativeme, ron paul does draw moderate voters, especially on the issue of the war. "
hetfield wrote on Sep 3, 2008 7:40 PM:
" ron paul can have his own convention. Why didnt he speak at the dnc?
good luck with the democratic thing. one day when you make some money you will want to keep it so... "
good luck with the democratic thing. one day when you make some money you will want to keep it so... "
timbrackett wrote on Sep 4, 2008 3:03 AM:
" hetfield, you have fallen in line with your fellow republicans. but the youth vote that swung 2004 has changed. you and your fellow republicans will regret shutting out ron paul and shunning huckabee. they were two candidates who could have kept the young evangelicals in the party.
you can spout your rhetoric now, but once the exit-polling data surfaces after the election you will wish your party had embraced both candidates a little more warmly. "
you can spout your rhetoric now, but once the exit-polling data surfaces after the election you will wish your party had embraced both candidates a little more warmly. "
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conservativeme wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:25 PM: