RSS Feeds
 |
|
|||||||||||||
News » Breaking News
Article rated a 0
by 0
users |
~ADVERTISING~
Two more injured in shootings
By JEFF REINITZ, Courier Staff Writer
WATERLOO — Two more people have been injured in a string of shootings from over the past two days.
The two recent victims join two others who were shot last week. Police have not said whether the shootings are related.
The latest shooting happened at about 1:12 a.m. today in the 200 block of Frances Drive when someone opened fire at a group of people outside, Waterloo Police Capt. John Beckman said.
One of the bullets struck Anthony Ondre Burt, 19, of 209 W. Fifth St. Acquaintances drive him to Covenant Medical Center for treatment.
Details weren’t available, but police said it appeared Burt was shot in a leg.
A bullet also made a hole in a vehicle parked in the area, Beckman said.
The shooting came less than a day after someone shot up Burt’s 1979 Chevrolet Caprice, according to police records.
Burt’s car had been parked in the driveway of a relative’s home at 224 Wellington St. when family members heard gunshots at about 12:30 p.m.
They looked and discovered the Caprice had bullet holes in the rear passenger window, driver’s-side door and back tire. A bullet was also found in a tree.
No injuries were reported.
The other recent shooting happened at about 12:35 a.m. Sunday when Trayvon Cherry, 20, of 310 Wellington St., was shot in the leg in the area of Reed and West Parker streets, according to the police report.
He was taken to Allen Hospital by private vehicle, and his injuries aren’t considered life threatening, police said.
Further details of that incident weren’t available.
No arrests in the attacks have been made.
The shootings come just a day after police arrested Justin Ray O’Connor, 23, for going armed and terrorism in an incident of gunfire where 44-year-old Scott Hansen was shot in the shoulder in the 400 block of Columbia Street Friday night.
Earlier in the week, police said Angello Ross, 20, was shot by a person in a vehicle in the area of West 11th and Washington streets Tuesday. Like the others, he was shot in the leg, and his injuries weren’t considered life threatening.
Contact Jeff Reinitz at (319) 291-1578 or jeff.reinitz@wcfcourier.com.
The two recent victims join two others who were shot last week. Police have not said whether the shootings are related.
The latest shooting happened at about 1:12 a.m. today in the 200 block of Frances Drive when someone opened fire at a group of people outside, Waterloo Police Capt. John Beckman said.
One of the bullets struck Anthony Ondre Burt, 19, of 209 W. Fifth St. Acquaintances drive him to Covenant Medical Center for treatment.
Details weren’t available, but police said it appeared Burt was shot in a leg.
A bullet also made a hole in a vehicle parked in the area, Beckman said.
The shooting came less than a day after someone shot up Burt’s 1979 Chevrolet Caprice, according to police records.
Burt’s car had been parked in the driveway of a relative’s home at 224 Wellington St. when family members heard gunshots at about 12:30 p.m.
They looked and discovered the Caprice had bullet holes in the rear passenger window, driver’s-side door and back tire. A bullet was also found in a tree.
No injuries were reported.
The other recent shooting happened at about 12:35 a.m. Sunday when Trayvon Cherry, 20, of 310 Wellington St., was shot in the leg in the area of Reed and West Parker streets, according to the police report.
He was taken to Allen Hospital by private vehicle, and his injuries aren’t considered life threatening, police said.
Further details of that incident weren’t available.
No arrests in the attacks have been made.
The shootings come just a day after police arrested Justin Ray O’Connor, 23, for going armed and terrorism in an incident of gunfire where 44-year-old Scott Hansen was shot in the shoulder in the 400 block of Columbia Street Friday night.
Earlier in the week, police said Angello Ross, 20, was shot by a person in a vehicle in the area of West 11th and Washington streets Tuesday. Like the others, he was shot in the leg, and his injuries weren’t considered life threatening.
Contact Jeff Reinitz at (319) 291-1578 or jeff.reinitz@wcfcourier.com.
 |
 |
More Stories from News » Breaking News
Waterloo violence subject of KBBG radio forumGunman opens fire in Tennessee church, 7 injuredWaterloo woman charged with arsonWartburg's Koehler resigns, Willis steps back in as head coachAmes police say man killed store clerk, selfIowa case raises question: Is stripping an art?High winds, heavy rains wreak havoc in central IowaJury selection starts in Bentley sex abuse trialThunderstorm outlookU.S. 20 road work over Hess Road starts Tues. eveningTwo more injured in shootingsMissing man killed by fallen treeBike rider opens fire on car, witnesses sayFairbank woman injured in early morning accident
kraut wrote on Jul 28, 2008 10:12 PM:
" To ozymandias: Nope won' say anything but just one famous comment " Just another day in Waterloo". "
JKovacs wrote on Jul 28, 2008 11:06 PM:
" Must be getting warm outside again! I currently recide in Waterloo, but admit it's really getting worse here with all these shootings. Looking like South Chicago and South Central Los Angeles. "
tsouthall12 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:17 AM:
" Wow, really? You are going to compare Waterloo to South Chicago and South Central Los Angeles? Apparently you have never been to either of those areas. Waterloo is far from that. There are obviously some issues here that need to be addressed, as does every city.
Honestly if the 3 of you would become part of the solution instead of fueling the problem with negative comments about your own community then there is a possibility that things could change.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, concerned citizens can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." — Margaret Mead "
Honestly if the 3 of you would become part of the solution instead of fueling the problem with negative comments about your own community then there is a possibility that things could change.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, concerned citizens can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." — Margaret Mead "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:40 AM:
" tsouthall12
Ever hear of a gadfly? Might want to look into it. "
Ever hear of a gadfly? Might want to look into it. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:29 AM:
" Anyone that's nervous traveling around any section of Waterloo needs to stay away from any major city. Don't ever visit Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit and for gosh sakes stay out of Washington D.C. I'm waiting for someone (ozy) to tell me that the first victim in this article, Mr. Burt, was minding his own business when someone shot him. His car was shot up previously. Maybe Mr. Burt has some upset enemies and is/was involved in some activities that lead to gunfire. It would be interesting if Mr. Burt gave the police any leads when his car was shot up. Bottom line, I am never, ever nervous anywhere in Waterloo because I'm not into things that would get me shot. "
gramma of 2 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:29 AM:
" To tsouthall12; Way to put it! Congrats! I have lived here all of my life and have never had any problems. I even live on the East side. Everyone keeps saying we are like a little Chicago? Instead of making remarks, start watching and listening and call the police or this won't stop. "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:33 AM:
" It's not comparable to Chicago or South Central LA, but lets get real people... it's getting bad. (off the subject a little) Did I see in the Courier a while ago Waterloo Schools have 70 percent of kids on free and reduced lunches? 99 percent at some schools. That is unheard of. "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:09 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I am a bit confused as to why you think I would be defending Burt. To be honest, I don't see him doing much wrong, other than visiting a not-so-great part of town, but I also see no evidence that he is 100% innocent. You are quite right, and it does indeed sound like he may have been a target, given that 2 of the recent drive-bys in Waterloo have targeted him. Given the relatively high number of these, though, and the small area they occur in, geographically and population wise, this being random chance is not unreasonable.
Long story short: I see no proof that he was doing anything wrong, and no proof he was innocent, and reserve judgment.
As to 'into things that would get you shot', judging from some of these news stories, that may be the issue. If more people engaged in risky behavior like 'Peace Rallies' things might work out for the better. Then again, some of the stories are people simply driving down the street, or happen to be out in public at the wrong time. I guess Waterloo Reader may mean that they simply do not go outside?
Oh,and interesting fact that I stumbled across while perusing crime rate statistics: Waterloo is higher in all crime rates, per capita than Cedar Falls. This factually contradicts the allegations a while back that Cedar Falls had issues with rape, due to UNI. Waterloo has twice the per capita rate for rape, sadly enough. "
I am a bit confused as to why you think I would be defending Burt. To be honest, I don't see him doing much wrong, other than visiting a not-so-great part of town, but I also see no evidence that he is 100% innocent. You are quite right, and it does indeed sound like he may have been a target, given that 2 of the recent drive-bys in Waterloo have targeted him. Given the relatively high number of these, though, and the small area they occur in, geographically and population wise, this being random chance is not unreasonable.
Long story short: I see no proof that he was doing anything wrong, and no proof he was innocent, and reserve judgment.
As to 'into things that would get you shot', judging from some of these news stories, that may be the issue. If more people engaged in risky behavior like 'Peace Rallies' things might work out for the better. Then again, some of the stories are people simply driving down the street, or happen to be out in public at the wrong time. I guess Waterloo Reader may mean that they simply do not go outside?
Oh,and interesting fact that I stumbled across while perusing crime rate statistics: Waterloo is higher in all crime rates, per capita than Cedar Falls. This factually contradicts the allegations a while back that Cedar Falls had issues with rape, due to UNI. Waterloo has twice the per capita rate for rape, sadly enough. "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:11 AM:
" FormerWaterlooian,
It is worse than that, Waterloo has only a 75% rate of students graduating high school. That is simply mind boggling. "
It is worse than that, Waterloo has only a 75% rate of students graduating high school. That is simply mind boggling. "
mikal50707 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:48 AM:
" Education is the key. You would think that a young adult Mr. Burt's age would be in college. Of course he knows, but with this culture of "No Snitching", he'll just keep it to himself. The only reason why guns are so available in Waterloo, and other major cities across America are because of this "War on Drugs". Across America, homicide is the number one killer of Black males. But we want to blame it on gangs, but how to gangs finance their operations. It's very obvious that guns are being used to protection, only when you are doing something illegal, or taking justice into your own hands involving something illegal. All these shootings are isolated. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. "
nanag wrote on Jul 29, 2008 12:00 PM:
" hey ozy its really funny that you of all people should mention gadfly do you know what it means?have a nice day "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:03 PM:
" nanag,
Seeing as I brought it up, I am going to hazard that I am fairly confident as to the definition. For your sake, I'll post it here: Someone who vocally challenges something, typically those in power, or a popular opinion, such as 'just another day in Waterloo' attitude concerning crime, or the 'it's not so bad' attitude about crime.
To go to a little more dated defintion, a gadfly is a 'fault finder' or a goad towards change, both definitions that also fit with my attitudes and posting. I find fault with the antics and activities, and I goad towards a solution, and away from complacency.
I suspect that the fact that you find it 'funny' that I call myself a gadfly that you were unaware of the actual definition and were only aware of the pejorative definition, even though the pejorative form is a seldom used form, and typically shows the ignorance of the user. "
Seeing as I brought it up, I am going to hazard that I am fairly confident as to the definition. For your sake, I'll post it here: Someone who vocally challenges something, typically those in power, or a popular opinion, such as 'just another day in Waterloo' attitude concerning crime, or the 'it's not so bad' attitude about crime.
To go to a little more dated defintion, a gadfly is a 'fault finder' or a goad towards change, both definitions that also fit with my attitudes and posting. I find fault with the antics and activities, and I goad towards a solution, and away from complacency.
I suspect that the fact that you find it 'funny' that I call myself a gadfly that you were unaware of the actual definition and were only aware of the pejorative definition, even though the pejorative form is a seldom used form, and typically shows the ignorance of the user. "
nanag wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:53 PM:
" wow pretty big words from a person who got his name from a comic book .oh well just wanted to know if you really knew what it means .have a good day "
nanag wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:56 PM:
" oh by the way mine says a person who stimulates or annoys especially by criticism yeah i guess your right "
Bake-bo wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:56 PM:
" I grew up on the east side as well. I can tell you that the neighborhood where I grew up, and my parents still reside in, has changed dramatically for the worse. There are open drug deals going on 24/7 across the street at the several "liqour" stores with chigaco gang epitaphs showing up all over the place. My parents and other neighbors have called the police many, many times with no reply. Neighbors have sent video tapes to the police which clearly indicate who is doing what with no actions being taken.
It is time for Waterloo residents to WAKE-UP! This is YOUR city. How, and by whom do you want to run it? It's obvious that your police department is no longer effective. Your elected officials are inefficent and are not taking care of these issues, your issues. The education system is a mess.
So what are YOU going to do? "
It is time for Waterloo residents to WAKE-UP! This is YOUR city. How, and by whom do you want to run it? It's obvious that your police department is no longer effective. Your elected officials are inefficent and are not taking care of these issues, your issues. The education system is a mess.
So what are YOU going to do? "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:03 PM:
" nanag,
I until another reader from Waterloo pointed it out, I was not aware that I share this name with a comic book character. I never really got into comic books, and instead when on to real literature at a young age. My name is a reference to a poem about the fleeting nature of man and his works. It actually came as a surprise to me that it was shared with a comic book character, who is tangentially based off of the same historical figure that the poem is about.
I guess if your literary abilities limit you to stories with plenty of pictures, that is your burden to bear, but I highly suggest expanding your literary horizons. The poem I reference is quite short, and is typically well regarded.
I would like to thank you for the compliment you paid me. It is good to see that others see my criticism and commentary as stimulating. That was my goal, and would love to see Waterloo improve. "
I until another reader from Waterloo pointed it out, I was not aware that I share this name with a comic book character. I never really got into comic books, and instead when on to real literature at a young age. My name is a reference to a poem about the fleeting nature of man and his works. It actually came as a surprise to me that it was shared with a comic book character, who is tangentially based off of the same historical figure that the poem is about.
I guess if your literary abilities limit you to stories with plenty of pictures, that is your burden to bear, but I highly suggest expanding your literary horizons. The poem I reference is quite short, and is typically well regarded.
I would like to thank you for the compliment you paid me. It is good to see that others see my criticism and commentary as stimulating. That was my goal, and would love to see Waterloo improve. "
gkb wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:12 PM:
" Education. Education. Education. Book education. Sex education. And even parenting education. You need to start young with these kids. All kids are innocent when starting out. It's their environment and upbringing that shapes their character. Most of these "kids" involved in shootings probably are in single parent households. Odds are, being raised by their mother. With no male figure in their lives, they try and find the nearest thing, and what does that mean?.....gangs. It's like family. They have their peers there and most likely, older males to "look up to". And I hate to do this, but the women need to stop having babies at young ages. Free birth control. Free abortions. Abstinence. Anything. Like the movie "The Lion King" says, it's the circle of life. Bangers creating bangers. It's a cycle that won't end unless the women take charge. Don't get pregnant. Get educated. Get a job. Meet a nice guy, get married, THEN have kids. It's so frustrating. It "seems" simple. These punks that you think are cool with their underwear hanging out, not job, sipping on a 40 are actually losers and are not cool. You are selfish if you simply have babies to have babies (ie. live off government). You're not thinking of giving your kid a better life. You're only thinking about yourself. And before you go crazy on me, I'm not saying all single mothers are the problem. But you know who you are. You control your body. Quit "giving it up". The bangers you are hanging with only care about one thing, and that is "hooking up". Have a little more respect for yourself. This current generation might be lost to some extent. Let's try for the next generation and educate, educate, educate. Quit being "victims". Like a famous athlete once said, "you make your OWN breaks." Start making your own breaks and not relying on others or blaming others. "Help me, help you." If you can't help yourself, how do you expect others to help? Sorry for all the quotes and rant, but as you can see, it's frustrating. "
krlfcfw wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:38 PM:
" I would have to agree with tsouthall12 on this one. The weekend before the last time I went to visit Chicago I think there were somewhere in the range of 13 shootings in 2 days in the South side. And about being part of the solution and not the problem; nanag do you just get on here to taunt like a elementary school child on the playground? "
krlfcfw wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:46 PM:
" Ozy, I highly doubt that most of the shootings had anything to do with people just walking down the street (to quote Waterloo Reader) minding their own business. If you were involved in something and the cops showed up after you got shot would you fess up? Common sense people... And to all you poignantly listing statistics, if it is so bad go into the schools and communities and volunteer your time to improve things instead of hiding in your home. "
think wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:50 PM:
" ozymandias
Anytime you’re critical of the city Waterloo Reader will jump to the defense of it. A relative or ex/current council member so I can understand there needs to defend the incompetence that now runs as wild as the Cedar. I agree with you most of the time. We know the council reads these as does the Mayor. Keep posting "
Anytime you’re critical of the city Waterloo Reader will jump to the defense of it. A relative or ex/current council member so I can understand there needs to defend the incompetence that now runs as wild as the Cedar. I agree with you most of the time. We know the council reads these as does the Mayor. Keep posting "
a6g wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:00 PM:
" krlfcfw and tsouthall12, you two realize that we actually have a higher number of shootings per capita here than south Chicago does, right? You realize that we are averaging at least one shooting a day for the last week or two; for a city of 60,000 total, that is RIDICULOUS. Yes, they are all drug/gang related most likely, but so are the shootings in Chicago. This needs to be put to an end and soon. "
jderifield01 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:04 PM:
" i was in town 2 weeks ago. At 2 in the morning there were kids out in the intersection where my parents live. We called the cops and they DID NOT DO A THING!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM FOR WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS CITY. THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE AND THE COPS LOOK THE OTHER WAY. ENFORCE THE LAWS ie: curfew, noise, disturbing the peace, weopons, underage drinking, etc... until they do, some parents maynot even realize what is going on with their kids. For those that do arrest them for endangerment and not providing a safe and trouble free enviorment for their kids. Wake up people is right protest your local gov and law enforcement and take it higher powers if need be "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:17 PM:
" Finally- people are agreeing that Waterloo is a mess. Whenever I say anything bad about lootown on this site I have several people who disagree and think that Loo is Fine. It is NOT fine. The schools are an absolute JOKE. I taught at East High for one year. I since have gotten out of the loo and Iowa actually. I know there are a few ok schools in loo and I know there are good kids in those schools, but personally from my teaching experience I would NEVER send my kids to a Waterloo Public School. Things are NOT getting better... Get out of the Loo if you can!! "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:37 PM:
" Think (grammainiowa) we have covered this ground before but here we go again: Not related to anyone that works for the city nor am I an ex-city council person.
I won't argue that Waterloo isn't a better place since formerwaterlooian and those that share his view have left. What we don't need is you back here on the news blog of the town you left trying to convince others to leave. Sorry you didn't get picked for the kickball team when you lived in Waterloo but let the bitterness go.
What I won't stand for is someone that supposedly taught at East High for one year telling us the education system in Waterloo is poor. The scholarship dollars that have been earned by Waterloo West graduates (I am only connected with West but I would bet Waterloo East is the same) is astounding. I an only looking at scholarships that are handed out for academics and it is truly a testament to the educational system and the dedication of the teachers that didn't pack it in and run after a single year. The great majority of the teachers I met at parent/teacher conferences were top-notch and knew how to inspire learners. "
I won't argue that Waterloo isn't a better place since formerwaterlooian and those that share his view have left. What we don't need is you back here on the news blog of the town you left trying to convince others to leave. Sorry you didn't get picked for the kickball team when you lived in Waterloo but let the bitterness go.
What I won't stand for is someone that supposedly taught at East High for one year telling us the education system in Waterloo is poor. The scholarship dollars that have been earned by Waterloo West graduates (I am only connected with West but I would bet Waterloo East is the same) is astounding. I an only looking at scholarships that are handed out for academics and it is truly a testament to the educational system and the dedication of the teachers that didn't pack it in and run after a single year. The great majority of the teachers I met at parent/teacher conferences were top-notch and knew how to inspire learners. "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:56 PM:
" You're right... Waterloo is great and getting better each and everyday!!
(remember the title of the article) "
(remember the title of the article) "
Concernedcitizen wrote on Jul 30, 2008 2:45 AM:
" Hey Waterloo Reader, you had better think about calling someone something they are not.
Think and grammainiowa were both on at the same time so they have to be two totally separate people.
Just take your punches as everyone else does on here and chill out. "
Think and grammainiowa were both on at the same time so they have to be two totally separate people.
Just take your punches as everyone else does on here and chill out. "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:37 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
The value of money given in scholarships (for college) is not an accurate representation of how well a school system is doing. For one thing, most scholarships take into account income, over and above scholastic ability. You have to fit into the correct income bracket to be eligible for the scholarship, making the pool of applicants skewed, biased and a poor reflection of abilities. You also claim that West sees a large value of scholarships, but fail to compare that value to anything, making the measurement even less useful. To accurately measure a school system you need to start with concrete measurements like the high school's rate of failure, which is 25% in Waterloo. You also need to measure things like the percentage of students that successfully complete college, get masters degrees, and doctorates, and then compare this number to other locations.
Think, thanks for the kind words, it is nice to see that I am making a difference.
krlfcfw, Some of us live in Cedar Falls and have no need to hide from the crime, as the criminals leaking in have not gotten that bad yet.
formerwaterlooian,
I think things have changed for the better on this site recently. A group of posters has stepped up and are taking the Waterloo Crime Apologists head on and not cowering in fear when they try to push anyone speaking out against crime around. It is interesting that a few vocal people have managed to incite others and draw additional people out to be vocal against this stuff. People no longer just ignore crime, instead they are standing up and starting to talk, and act, like they are mature adults, and are sick of the cesspool the crime is trying to draw Waterloo deep into. "
The value of money given in scholarships (for college) is not an accurate representation of how well a school system is doing. For one thing, most scholarships take into account income, over and above scholastic ability. You have to fit into the correct income bracket to be eligible for the scholarship, making the pool of applicants skewed, biased and a poor reflection of abilities. You also claim that West sees a large value of scholarships, but fail to compare that value to anything, making the measurement even less useful. To accurately measure a school system you need to start with concrete measurements like the high school's rate of failure, which is 25% in Waterloo. You also need to measure things like the percentage of students that successfully complete college, get masters degrees, and doctorates, and then compare this number to other locations.
Think, thanks for the kind words, it is nice to see that I am making a difference.
krlfcfw, Some of us live in Cedar Falls and have no need to hide from the crime, as the criminals leaking in have not gotten that bad yet.
formerwaterlooian,
I think things have changed for the better on this site recently. A group of posters has stepped up and are taking the Waterloo Crime Apologists head on and not cowering in fear when they try to push anyone speaking out against crime around. It is interesting that a few vocal people have managed to incite others and draw additional people out to be vocal against this stuff. People no longer just ignore crime, instead they are standing up and starting to talk, and act, like they are mature adults, and are sick of the cesspool the crime is trying to draw Waterloo deep into. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:54 AM:
" ozy, you do your measurement your way and I'll choose to look at it in a different way. I am talking about the money that has been awarded to students on a straight academic basis...not related to their parent's financial level. I don't care about the bottom of the pool and I don't expect my kids to be in that end of the pool. In fact, I told them that in their time at West High they will see some kids sleeping in class and they should really feel bad if those sleepers get better grades than they do. I can only raise my kids and I can't be responsible for the rest. By the way, that's the way it is in the real world as well: I do well at my job but there are people that get fired everyday for being lazy and stupid from my employer. I am only responsible for me. Same argument holds true when the shooting starts: I am responsible for me and mine. If I get shot, I'm calling the cops and giving them complete and full descriptions of everyone and everything. A crime against me will be solved because I will cooperate with the WPD. I'm no more an "apologists" than you are a "chicken little". "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:14 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
If you really want teachers who care so little that they will let students opening sleep in class teaching your children, I guess that is your prerogative. Some of us care about our children and the quality of education they receive. "
If you really want teachers who care so little that they will let students opening sleep in class teaching your children, I guess that is your prerogative. Some of us care about our children and the quality of education they receive. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Jul 30, 2008 2:33 PM:
" At the high school level, a teacher should not be dealing with sleeping students. The world is filled with "natural consequences" and kids learn best using this technique. Sleep through class and pass and you're fine. Sleep through class and flunk and you get to repeat that course if it's required for graduation. Teaching professional should not have to take time away from the students that do want to learn to deal with students that don't care. Let them sleep and deal with the natural consequences of their actions. What's missing today is a strong parental influence and having a teacher continually stop his/her lecture to wake a student up isn't going to change a child that doesn't have that strong parental influence. Coddle a high-schooler and you'll be forced to coddle that person the rest of their life. Teach them a slightly "painful" lesson and they just might turn things around for the better. "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 30, 2008 2:56 PM:
" Waterloo Reader,
You would have a very valid point -- except the Waterloo school system is not just high school. It is actually 12 grades collected into 3 groups: elementary, middle and high schools. The teachers failing your high school student might not be a huge deal, due to personal responsibility, but the lower level grades play a role, too. By the time you reach high school, you should already know better than to act out, sleep, or disrupt class, and it is not *just* the parents responsibility. It is partly the teacher's responsibility, even if only to report some things to the parents. The parents are not in the classrooms and watching their children on a daily basis, that is the job that teachers are paid for.
I agree that parents play a huge role in the educational system, but short of home schooling, the quality of the teachers, the tools available, and the student's peers will all play a major role. Any system that thinks that a 25% failure rate is acceptable is fooling itself. It is these children slipping through the cracks that are growing up to be the problem adults in society. It is very rare that a 4.0 student does a drive-by, but a high school drop out, or a failed grad doing a drive-by is much more common. Same goes for other social problems. People that fail high school tend to be more likely to do a lot of things, like live on welfare, or do drugs (but the cause effect relationship here is still very debatable).
You sit there, apologize for Waterloos crime, tell people that don't live in Waterloo it is none of their business, and then turn around and say that people should be making an effort to improve things -- but when people talk about the issues, and point out huge problems like the horrible failure that is the school system, you prefer to ignore the issue.
Maybe with your head in the sand the issues will go away, maybe if you ignore reality it wont hurt you. It is simply much more likely that you will fail your children, and teach them that what you call logic is acceptable, that trying to improve your community is bad, and that it is none of your business how bad the not-so-well-off have it.
If you have your way, they might even believe it, without a strong school system to help correct your mistakes. "
You would have a very valid point -- except the Waterloo school system is not just high school. It is actually 12 grades collected into 3 groups: elementary, middle and high schools. The teachers failing your high school student might not be a huge deal, due to personal responsibility, but the lower level grades play a role, too. By the time you reach high school, you should already know better than to act out, sleep, or disrupt class, and it is not *just* the parents responsibility. It is partly the teacher's responsibility, even if only to report some things to the parents. The parents are not in the classrooms and watching their children on a daily basis, that is the job that teachers are paid for.
I agree that parents play a huge role in the educational system, but short of home schooling, the quality of the teachers, the tools available, and the student's peers will all play a major role. Any system that thinks that a 25% failure rate is acceptable is fooling itself. It is these children slipping through the cracks that are growing up to be the problem adults in society. It is very rare that a 4.0 student does a drive-by, but a high school drop out, or a failed grad doing a drive-by is much more common. Same goes for other social problems. People that fail high school tend to be more likely to do a lot of things, like live on welfare, or do drugs (but the cause effect relationship here is still very debatable).
You sit there, apologize for Waterloos crime, tell people that don't live in Waterloo it is none of their business, and then turn around and say that people should be making an effort to improve things -- but when people talk about the issues, and point out huge problems like the horrible failure that is the school system, you prefer to ignore the issue.
Maybe with your head in the sand the issues will go away, maybe if you ignore reality it wont hurt you. It is simply much more likely that you will fail your children, and teach them that what you call logic is acceptable, that trying to improve your community is bad, and that it is none of your business how bad the not-so-well-off have it.
If you have your way, they might even believe it, without a strong school system to help correct your mistakes. "
nanag wrote on Jul 30, 2008 4:15 PM:
" jderifield you are 100% right (by the way we are related. that is my maiden name) "
think wrote on Jul 30, 2008 4:42 PM:
" jderifield01 100% right. Since Jennings took over and the police union asked the Mayor to replace him, there has been a strike. Most people just don't know it. It is time for most of the elected and appointed officials to either be fired or recalled. This starts at the top and was never this bad under any Mayor as it is now. I would love to see our Mayor walk down there at 1 am alone and come out and say there is no problem. Better yet put Jennings in street clothes and like most of walk into the hood with no weapon. How about it Tim? "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:53 PM:
" A little more fairy tale from ozy. If you have subpar elementary and middle school education you don't win an academic scholarship out of high school. It's a straight line ozy, try to follow it. I'm an involved parent that holds all of his children accountable for their grades and I don't do anything that every parent couldn't do if they cared. If you drive my car, use one of my cell phones or use any of the "sporting equipment" around my house you are passing all of your classes with a grade that shows effort. You can get a B or a C but you'd better be studying that subject everyday with sweat dripping off your brow. I'm definitely not "ignoring" any crime issue in Waterloo. You have never, ever read a blog of mine where I "apologized" for any crime in Waterloo. My statement is that the crime issues in Waterloo are overblown when small-town people compare Waterloo to Chicago or Los Angeles. If Waterloo scares you, you'd stroke out going to a White Sox game in Chicago or to a Lakers game in LA.
It comes down to this. Crime will continue to occur to people that live their lives in the legal margins. When the police can't get any crime details, don't come back and _itch when the crime goes unsolved. If you hang out with gang members and drug dealers, you are more likely to get shot than hanging out at a Bucks game or the Library. I do enjoy the people that made the decision to leave Waterloo and then have to come back on this blog to justify their decision and tell those of us that continue to enjoy Waterloo how wrong we are. I have lived in some small towns in Iowa and while they have advantages, they are not without some disadvantages. Try joining a high school Orchestra in Denver or getting an ice-cream cone in Hudson. It's all about choices and if you're comfortable with the choice you've made, you should be quietly content with the knowledge that you live in the place that you fit in best.
By the way ozy, some of us are still waiting for you to tell us how the criminal in Ames that shot and killed his companion and then himself was actually from Waterloo. How can a serious crime occur in Iowa, especially with a gun, outside of Waterloo? Surely you can illuminate for us what the link is to Waterloo. "
It comes down to this. Crime will continue to occur to people that live their lives in the legal margins. When the police can't get any crime details, don't come back and _itch when the crime goes unsolved. If you hang out with gang members and drug dealers, you are more likely to get shot than hanging out at a Bucks game or the Library. I do enjoy the people that made the decision to leave Waterloo and then have to come back on this blog to justify their decision and tell those of us that continue to enjoy Waterloo how wrong we are. I have lived in some small towns in Iowa and while they have advantages, they are not without some disadvantages. Try joining a high school Orchestra in Denver or getting an ice-cream cone in Hudson. It's all about choices and if you're comfortable with the choice you've made, you should be quietly content with the knowledge that you live in the place that you fit in best.
By the way ozy, some of us are still waiting for you to tell us how the criminal in Ames that shot and killed his companion and then himself was actually from Waterloo. How can a serious crime occur in Iowa, especially with a gun, outside of Waterloo? Surely you can illuminate for us what the link is to Waterloo. "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:39 PM:
" Waterloo Reader- In all seriousness.. Do you think that Waterloo has gotten better in the last 10 years? Do you think that the Waterloo Schools are good overall including ALL of the schools k-12? Everything seems to be going downhill and I do not see an end to it.. do you? Have you lived in the loo for your whole life? I look forward to hearing your answers to these simple questions... please answer honestly. Thanks "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:46 PM:
" Ozymandias you have some very good points. It seems when I have something negative to say about Waterloo people get so defensive. I lived there for 26 years, born and raised, but it is getting bad. I think it might take moving out of the ghetto, I mean loo, for people to see that. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:08 PM:
" come on formerwaterlooian.....calling the town of Waterloo a "ghetto" and then asking me to take you as serious is a joke. I guarantee that wherever you live is not near as nice as many areas of Waterloo. I do think Waterloo is better today than it was 10 years ago and it's a heck of a lot better than when I graduated from a local high school in the early 80's. I attended high school in Waterloo and have lived here twice since graduating from high school. I have lived in towns much, much larger than Waterloo and I have lived in towns much, much smaller than Waterloo due to job transfers. I have found good things about every town where my family and I have lived. Your feelings on Waterloo might just be related to you being a "glass half-empty" kind of person and I'm always going to be a "glass half-full" kind of guy. I haven't attended all or have had my own children attend all of the schools in Waterloo, but the ones I have gotten to experience has been overall positive. Have we run into a very small minority of teachers who were just going through the motions? You bet and that's when we, as parents, stepped in and helped complete the learning experience. My family chooses to live here when we can for as long as we can. Just in the past 20 years my family has experienced unbelievable academic excellence, a very robust Talented and Gifted Program within the schools, top notch music instruction, great sporting events with UNI, the Black Hawks and the local high school sporting teams, Movies Under the Moon, many great events at the Gallagher Bluedorn, great parks, well-developed trails, local lakes, the best neighbors we have ever had and close proximity to trout streams and other outdoor pursuits. I have had members of my family attend Allen School of Nursing and UNI (undergraduate and masters) and we have been very pleased with the quality of education and the cost. I would respect formerwaterlooian (and all the formerwaterlooian types) if they would spend time extolling the virtues of where they choose to live instead of running down a town where they no longer live. Why has formerwaterlooian never written a single good thing about where they currently live? Glass half-empty. "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:46 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I would like to ask you to stop lying about things I say, or trying to be otherwise dishonest about my position on issues. I have made it very clear what these positions are, although I may have used words a little difficult for a Waterloo graduate like yourself to understand. I have never made the claim that all crime in Iowa is related to Waterloo, and to imply that is quite silly. I have made two separate claims, which you seem to be getting confused over. One is that crime in Waterloo is too high, and needs to come down, a point you routinely disagree with. My second major claim that I have made, and the one you seem to be having the most trouble with is that a significant amount of the crime reported in Cedar Falls results in a non-resident who was visiting Cedar Falls getting arrested. I am not sure why you have such trouble understanding such simple points.
As to your claim that scholarships are awarded solely on merit, I can flat out say that that is untrue. The vast majority of scholarships take income into account and give preference to lower income individuals. There are many scholarships that people are simply not eligible for if they, or their parents, earn too much money. The simple fact that grades and high school performance are not the only factors relating to scholarship awards means that your metric would be skewed. The simple fact that you are also looking at *one* school -- and failing to compare it to other schools is just silly. You seem to be proud of the amount of scholarships students from West receive, but you admittedly don't even know what value other schools in the area are recieving. "
I would like to ask you to stop lying about things I say, or trying to be otherwise dishonest about my position on issues. I have made it very clear what these positions are, although I may have used words a little difficult for a Waterloo graduate like yourself to understand. I have never made the claim that all crime in Iowa is related to Waterloo, and to imply that is quite silly. I have made two separate claims, which you seem to be getting confused over. One is that crime in Waterloo is too high, and needs to come down, a point you routinely disagree with. My second major claim that I have made, and the one you seem to be having the most trouble with is that a significant amount of the crime reported in Cedar Falls results in a non-resident who was visiting Cedar Falls getting arrested. I am not sure why you have such trouble understanding such simple points.
As to your claim that scholarships are awarded solely on merit, I can flat out say that that is untrue. The vast majority of scholarships take income into account and give preference to lower income individuals. There are many scholarships that people are simply not eligible for if they, or their parents, earn too much money. The simple fact that grades and high school performance are not the only factors relating to scholarship awards means that your metric would be skewed. The simple fact that you are also looking at *one* school -- and failing to compare it to other schools is just silly. You seem to be proud of the amount of scholarships students from West receive, but you admittedly don't even know what value other schools in the area are recieving. "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:46 AM:
" Waterloo reader-
I agree that UNI is a great school,(I graduated from there) but that is in CF. I never said anything bad about the teachers in loo. I find it hard to believe that you honestly think that loo is better in the last 10 years. If shootings are good.. you're right. I live in Overland Park KS. 3 times bigger than loo and I think we've had 1 shooting in the last year. The school district that I teach in has a 97% graduation rate. Top 25 places to live in the US according to a study last year. There are a few good things to say about where I live. "
I agree that UNI is a great school,(I graduated from there) but that is in CF. I never said anything bad about the teachers in loo. I find it hard to believe that you honestly think that loo is better in the last 10 years. If shootings are good.. you're right. I live in Overland Park KS. 3 times bigger than loo and I think we've had 1 shooting in the last year. The school district that I teach in has a 97% graduation rate. Top 25 places to live in the US according to a study last year. There are a few good things to say about where I live. "
ozymandias wrote on Jul 31, 2008 8:40 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
In your diatribe against formerwaterlooian, you mix and match features from Cedar Falls and Waterloo, and use many features of Cedar Falls to explain why Waterloo is great. In doing so, you have made it VERY easy to provide an example of a city that is 'near as nice' as Waterloo, if not better. Cedar Falls. Since you mix-n-match benefits of being close to CF as a feature of Waterloo, I turn the table: Live in CF, with better schools, lower crime, and all the features you listed above. Cedar Falls is just as close, if not closer to many of the events you listed as many parts of Waterloo. "
In your diatribe against formerwaterlooian, you mix and match features from Cedar Falls and Waterloo, and use many features of Cedar Falls to explain why Waterloo is great. In doing so, you have made it VERY easy to provide an example of a city that is 'near as nice' as Waterloo, if not better. Cedar Falls. Since you mix-n-match benefits of being close to CF as a feature of Waterloo, I turn the table: Live in CF, with better schools, lower crime, and all the features you listed above. Cedar Falls is just as close, if not closer to many of the events you listed as many parts of Waterloo. "
nanag wrote on Jul 31, 2008 11:05 AM:
" omg my town is better than your town .my mom can beat up your mom my car is better then your car geez get a life people !!!!!!!! "
50674 wrote on Jul 31, 2008 6:05 PM:
" Oh come on...Overland Park has twice the median household income as Waterloo so it stands to reason that people WITH MONEY move there to avoid the crime, since it is the suburb of 2 higher crime cities.Add to that it is also 91% white. No fair comparison there. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Jul 31, 2008 11:58 PM:
" Sorry ozy, until you get the border fence built between Waterloo and Cedar Falls I'll go where I want when I want. I'll keep my passport with me just in case I get checked by the Republic of Cedar Falls.
I personally, not hearsay or third party knowledge, know of scholarships to Waterloo graduates that have been awarded to Iowa Regent Institutions based solely on academic scores. No parent income information is used. Here's my iron-clad offer to you oh ozyman: I'll meet you at the Cedar Falls police station (so you feel safe meeting with a Waterloo resident)and show you rock-solid proof that some Waterloo kids, educated by the Waterloo public school system, are earning scholarships to Iowa Regent Universities based solely on academic performance. When I prove this assertion, you come on here and cop to your real name and your actual address (PO Box is fine, again it's a safety thing for you.)I choose to live in Waterloo, but I also don't pester those that choose to live in Cedar Falls unless they insist on saying classless, racial tinged statements that denigrate an entire population of a city. (That's you ozy, by the way.)
As for formerwaterlooian, my earlier point stands...why do you insist on pestering those of us up here with negative statements about our town instead of telling us about your town. You finally get around to telling us where you live and all the great things about it. Maybe you're learning about the glass being half-full. Funny though, with all the great things going on in the suburb of Kansas City where you live, how do you have time to weigh in on every little thing going on in Loo-ville? I would have thought with all the good things you tell us you have going on in your suburb you wouldn't have time to keep a close tab on a town you didn't like when you were here and never plan to return to........hmmmmm. Still sounds like your smarting about being picked last for the playground kickball game. We up here in Loo-ville apologize for not recognizing your greatness while you were here and erecting a statute to your accomplishments. Good luck in a suburb of Kansas City. "
I personally, not hearsay or third party knowledge, know of scholarships to Waterloo graduates that have been awarded to Iowa Regent Institutions based solely on academic scores. No parent income information is used. Here's my iron-clad offer to you oh ozyman: I'll meet you at the Cedar Falls police station (so you feel safe meeting with a Waterloo resident)and show you rock-solid proof that some Waterloo kids, educated by the Waterloo public school system, are earning scholarships to Iowa Regent Universities based solely on academic performance. When I prove this assertion, you come on here and cop to your real name and your actual address (PO Box is fine, again it's a safety thing for you.)I choose to live in Waterloo, but I also don't pester those that choose to live in Cedar Falls unless they insist on saying classless, racial tinged statements that denigrate an entire population of a city. (That's you ozy, by the way.)
As for formerwaterlooian, my earlier point stands...why do you insist on pestering those of us up here with negative statements about our town instead of telling us about your town. You finally get around to telling us where you live and all the great things about it. Maybe you're learning about the glass being half-full. Funny though, with all the great things going on in the suburb of Kansas City where you live, how do you have time to weigh in on every little thing going on in Loo-ville? I would have thought with all the good things you tell us you have going on in your suburb you wouldn't have time to keep a close tab on a town you didn't like when you were here and never plan to return to........hmmmmm. Still sounds like your smarting about being picked last for the playground kickball game. We up here in Loo-ville apologize for not recognizing your greatness while you were here and erecting a statute to your accomplishments. Good luck in a suburb of Kansas City. "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Aug 1, 2008 12:06 AM:
" 50674- The only reason I mentioned it is because waterloo reader asked. Also, I'm not sure if you read the previous comments, but I'm a teacher so I'm not one of those people "with money", I just want my kids to have a good school system. That's all.
50674-- where is that?? Waverly, Hudson, laPorte City Union? "
50674-- where is that?? Waverly, Hudson, laPorte City Union? "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 1, 2008 8:40 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I never said that you are not allowed in CF. You simply attacked anyone not living in Waterloo, and asked that they list what makes their cities better than Waterloo. You then proceeded to list the things in both Waterloo and Cedar Falls as things that made Waterloo great. All I did was merely point out that that argument works the other way, too Waterloo's detriment. I am sorry that you feel the need to carry a passport and fear a wall (a suggestion that was made long ago, in jest).
As to the scholarships, for every scholarship you list that does not consider income levels, I will provide two that do. Just because you know of a few scholarships that do not consider financial need, does not mean that financial need does not skew scholarship distribution. And, again, you are failing to compare the value you have to anything else. You might think that a few thousand dollars is a lot of scholarship money, but you have no idea how much money other schools receive, per capita to their grads. no matter what number you have for scholarship funding, it is a useless number as a metric until you have other numbers to compare to. As an example, is the number 100 large? If I am talking 1-100, it is large. If I am talking 1-1,000 it is not very large any more. A simple number, plucked out of the blue is useless as a comparison, unless you have something to compare it to. For someone who claims to have much pride in the Waterloo educational system, and to be a product of said system, you are doing a *very* poor job representing it. "
I never said that you are not allowed in CF. You simply attacked anyone not living in Waterloo, and asked that they list what makes their cities better than Waterloo. You then proceeded to list the things in both Waterloo and Cedar Falls as things that made Waterloo great. All I did was merely point out that that argument works the other way, too Waterloo's detriment. I am sorry that you feel the need to carry a passport and fear a wall (a suggestion that was made long ago, in jest).
As to the scholarships, for every scholarship you list that does not consider income levels, I will provide two that do. Just because you know of a few scholarships that do not consider financial need, does not mean that financial need does not skew scholarship distribution. And, again, you are failing to compare the value you have to anything else. You might think that a few thousand dollars is a lot of scholarship money, but you have no idea how much money other schools receive, per capita to their grads. no matter what number you have for scholarship funding, it is a useless number as a metric until you have other numbers to compare to. As an example, is the number 100 large? If I am talking 1-100, it is large. If I am talking 1-1,000 it is not very large any more. A simple number, plucked out of the blue is useless as a comparison, unless you have something to compare it to. For someone who claims to have much pride in the Waterloo educational system, and to be a product of said system, you are doing a *very* poor job representing it. "
formerwaterlooian wrote on Aug 1, 2008 9:25 AM:
" Waterloo reader- The only reason I said anything about where I lived is because you asked. Sorry. I really do hope Loo gets better. I enjoy visiting once a year and have all of my family in CF. You take this stuff way too personal. Stay safe.
By the way- I was usually picked first in kickball. "
By the way- I was usually picked first in kickball. "
50674 wrote on Aug 1, 2008 12:26 PM:
" If you want my zipcode it's 50707. If you think my 50674 reflects where I live I am sorry if it confuses you. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 1, 2008 1:14 PM:
" The reason we are focusing on purely academic scholarships is that you stated the Waterloo School System was a poor system and you focused on the lower end of the pool. My statement is that the pool is filled with high-achievers as well but you choose to ignore them. I realize there are scholarships that are not related or less related to academic achievement but they are not in contest here. I just wanted to make sure that every one on the blog understands that your statement, "As to your claim that scholarships are awarded solely on merit, I can flat out say that that is untrue" is but one of the "ozyisms" that are factually wrong. I follow the large, multi-year Regent scholarships and I think we are doing better than you would have guessed. Ozy, please lock your doors tonight and sit in Cedar Falls in complete fear. I'll be meeting my fellow Waterlooians at the Irish Fest. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 1, 2008 3:28 PM:
" Waterloo Reader,
Ah, it is amazing what you can do when you move the goal posts. I have no fear that the intelligent people on this site have no trouble keeping up with your changing metric. First it was scholarships in general (but not compared to anything) then it was a handful of merit only scholarships (but not a representative sample of scholarships, many of which are need based, and you still did not compare to anything) and now it is the 'large, multi-year Regents scholarships', but still not compared to anything. Is 370 a large number? I mean, you somehow have the magic ability to know if a number is large, with nothing to compare it to.
I have no problem with you making a fool of yourself, and mis-quoting me, or quoting me out of context, as I am sure that the context of the following sentences, clears things up, namely: "The vast majority of scholarships take income into account and give preference to lower income individuals. There are many scholarships that people are simply not eligible for if they, or their parents, earn too much money. The simple fact that grades and high school performance are not the only factors relating to scholarship awards means that your metric would be skewed." Contrary to what you seem to believe, many of the commenters on this site are intelligent people, with reading and comprehension skills. I am not sure if you simply have trouble understanding these simple concepts, and like to think everyone is like you, or if you are acting stupid in an attempt to generate support, and try to get away with dishonest debate tactics, such as your out-of-context quoting, or your making up fake positions to claim I take.
Your recent spat of 'scared in CF' comments are a great example: Why would I have to lock my doors and sit in CF in complete fear? One of the many benefits of Cedar Falls is the low crime rate, and the ability to feel safe in every neighborhood, without fear of arson or random shootings. You are really bad at this whole 'logic' thing, aren't you? Somehow, you make up an imaginary point to pretend I would say, and then try to debate against it, ignoring the fact that it is completely backwards of just about every comment I have made on this site. I hope for your children's sake that they are some of the lucky bunch, and run into good teachers -- ones that can help correct against these lapses in your education, and prevent you from passing out this collected stupidity that you throw around with every post.
I apologize if this seems rude, or harsh, but I can bang my head on the brick wall that trying to converse with you has become only so long. It amazes me the amount of hostility you have for someone whose goal is to assist in improving your community, and by extension his own community -- something you seem to like to pretend to support. It is impressive how virulently you are defending crime and criminals against any effort to correct the problems. A more suspicious man would wonder why you defend crime and criminals so strongly. "
Ah, it is amazing what you can do when you move the goal posts. I have no fear that the intelligent people on this site have no trouble keeping up with your changing metric. First it was scholarships in general (but not compared to anything) then it was a handful of merit only scholarships (but not a representative sample of scholarships, many of which are need based, and you still did not compare to anything) and now it is the 'large, multi-year Regents scholarships', but still not compared to anything. Is 370 a large number? I mean, you somehow have the magic ability to know if a number is large, with nothing to compare it to.
I have no problem with you making a fool of yourself, and mis-quoting me, or quoting me out of context, as I am sure that the context of the following sentences, clears things up, namely: "The vast majority of scholarships take income into account and give preference to lower income individuals. There are many scholarships that people are simply not eligible for if they, or their parents, earn too much money. The simple fact that grades and high school performance are not the only factors relating to scholarship awards means that your metric would be skewed." Contrary to what you seem to believe, many of the commenters on this site are intelligent people, with reading and comprehension skills. I am not sure if you simply have trouble understanding these simple concepts, and like to think everyone is like you, or if you are acting stupid in an attempt to generate support, and try to get away with dishonest debate tactics, such as your out-of-context quoting, or your making up fake positions to claim I take.
Your recent spat of 'scared in CF' comments are a great example: Why would I have to lock my doors and sit in CF in complete fear? One of the many benefits of Cedar Falls is the low crime rate, and the ability to feel safe in every neighborhood, without fear of arson or random shootings. You are really bad at this whole 'logic' thing, aren't you? Somehow, you make up an imaginary point to pretend I would say, and then try to debate against it, ignoring the fact that it is completely backwards of just about every comment I have made on this site. I hope for your children's sake that they are some of the lucky bunch, and run into good teachers -- ones that can help correct against these lapses in your education, and prevent you from passing out this collected stupidity that you throw around with every post.
I apologize if this seems rude, or harsh, but I can bang my head on the brick wall that trying to converse with you has become only so long. It amazes me the amount of hostility you have for someone whose goal is to assist in improving your community, and by extension his own community -- something you seem to like to pretend to support. It is impressive how virulently you are defending crime and criminals against any effort to correct the problems. A more suspicious man would wonder why you defend crime and criminals so strongly. "
50674 wrote on Aug 1, 2008 4:53 PM:
" Ah Irish Fest...wish I didn't have to work this weekend. I would love to see the Waterloo Irish Fest grow to the ranks of Milwaukee's great Irish Fest. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:17 AM:
" Oh ozy, ozy, ozy; No one is moving the goal posts. Here is my initial post regarding the scholarship issue: "I am only looking at scholarships that are handed out for academics and it is truly a testament to the educational system". You certainly tried to move the argument off this premise but I have stayed the course.
I'm laughing ever time I post...sounds like this might not be fun for you anymore.
If you are a regular reader of this forum you would know, without any equivocation, that I don't defend criminals nor do I have a soft spot for parents that can't control their budding
criminals. I do wonder what you have done to achieve your stated "goal" which is "to assist in improving your community."? Have you made a donation to the Waterloo PD? Have you done any sleuthing to help solve a crime that occurred in Waterloo? Have you done anything more useful than denigrate an entire town and then suggest that we arrest those that perpetrated crime? Thanks for the suggestion, we had that one written down already.
I regularly hear from folks that read my comments on this blog and I comfortable that I'm in the majority of level-headed thinkers. You seem to be part of the 1 percent of CF residents that look at their myopic world with rose-colored glasses. I make fun of the "build a wall" statement because it's funny....come on, you know the Republic of Cedar Falls is funny. You are the one that stated that "most" or "all" of the crime in Cedar Falls was perpetrated by Waterloo residents and you ... all Waterloo residents for it. I only pointed out the most of the crime in CF was perpetrated by criminals.
I trust "the wall" isn't the last of your suggestions. How about Waterloo residents having special license plates so you can see us coming? How about a scarlet letter "W" on the forehead?
I throw out the same challenge to you as I did to Formerwaterlooian: MYOB. You don't live here and your "helpful suggestions" as to how we can solve our problems amount to inane advice that everyone knows. Face it, you're the octogenarian at the family gathering pontificating about the benefits of changing oil on automobiles.
And yes, I'm still laughing. "
I'm laughing ever time I post...sounds like this might not be fun for you anymore.
If you are a regular reader of this forum you would know, without any equivocation, that I don't defend criminals nor do I have a soft spot for parents that can't control their budding
criminals. I do wonder what you have done to achieve your stated "goal" which is "to assist in improving your community."? Have you made a donation to the Waterloo PD? Have you done any sleuthing to help solve a crime that occurred in Waterloo? Have you done anything more useful than denigrate an entire town and then suggest that we arrest those that perpetrated crime? Thanks for the suggestion, we had that one written down already.
I regularly hear from folks that read my comments on this blog and I comfortable that I'm in the majority of level-headed thinkers. You seem to be part of the 1 percent of CF residents that look at their myopic world with rose-colored glasses. I make fun of the "build a wall" statement because it's funny....come on, you know the Republic of Cedar Falls is funny. You are the one that stated that "most" or "all" of the crime in Cedar Falls was perpetrated by Waterloo residents and you ... all Waterloo residents for it. I only pointed out the most of the crime in CF was perpetrated by criminals.
I trust "the wall" isn't the last of your suggestions. How about Waterloo residents having special license plates so you can see us coming? How about a scarlet letter "W" on the forehead?
I throw out the same challenge to you as I did to Formerwaterlooian: MYOB. You don't live here and your "helpful suggestions" as to how we can solve our problems amount to inane advice that everyone knows. Face it, you're the octogenarian at the family gathering pontificating about the benefits of changing oil on automobiles.
And yes, I'm still laughing. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 4, 2008 8:04 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I'll keep this short and simple so it doesn't go over your head:
Waterloo crime *is* my business. The criminals in Waterloo are not content *staying* in Waterloo.
Given the amount of positive things people say to, and about me regarding my opinions on here, and the number of people disagreeing with you, I am comfortable stating I feel I am not in any sort of minority -- Unless you think the 1% of CF people you degrade make up some sort of majority of posters here. Almost seems as if that is a veiled insult to Waterloo -- that the 1% of CFers with rose colored glasses get to make up a majority of posters on the local news site... "
I'll keep this short and simple so it doesn't go over your head:
Waterloo crime *is* my business. The criminals in Waterloo are not content *staying* in Waterloo.
Given the amount of positive things people say to, and about me regarding my opinions on here, and the number of people disagreeing with you, I am comfortable stating I feel I am not in any sort of minority -- Unless you think the 1% of CF people you degrade make up some sort of majority of posters here. Almost seems as if that is a veiled insult to Waterloo -- that the 1% of CFers with rose colored glasses get to make up a majority of posters on the local news site... "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:57 AM:
" ozy, I'll get a crayon out and draw this out for you: There's a difference in disagreeing with you versus not understanding your wandering thought process. I'm down with the former, not the latter. Are you thinking about starting the push for a "scarlet W" program?
Are you having any fun yet? I am. "
Are you having any fun yet? I am. "
siloa wrote on Aug 4, 2008 1:28 PM:
" Ya'll need to stop fighting among yourselves, there is enough violence and hate, agree to disagree. The big problem is that Waterloo is not at the Chicago or LA crime level, but on a small scale we are getting scary. Someone mentioned Mr. Burt, he is a known criminal. He is not close to innocent, and he is part of the problem. Check out his record it is a public record. The police cant do anything because they do not recieve any help from the citizens due to fear, retaliation, apathy, ect. They cant patrol in unmarked cars, everyone acts different when a marked police car pulls up, they are undermaned, look at similar police departments with the same crime and you would be surprised. The bottom line is untill the parents raise their kids and or control their kids properly then it will get worse. There will be a progression in the violence and real innocent people will be shot and killed and then everyone will point fingers and blame others. Let the City Council crack down, lets let the police rein in the criminals and lets hold the parents and their kids responsible for their actions. Nah that will never happen because the ACLU will cry foul, its sad and getting worse. Even our justice system protects the criminals more than the victims. We need more jails, more severe penalties and more JOBS and Education to change the future. Goodluck. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 4, 2008 3:14 PM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I am curious as to your logic. How is it not my business if a neighboring city does nothing about their unacceptable crime rate, and the criminals are coming into my town?
I am fine with you disagreeing with me, I am interested in seeing if your logic is as bad regarding this decision as any other one you posted.. "
I am curious as to your logic. How is it not my business if a neighboring city does nothing about their unacceptable crime rate, and the criminals are coming into my town?
I am fine with you disagreeing with me, I am interested in seeing if your logic is as bad regarding this decision as any other one you posted.. "
loovian wrote on Aug 4, 2008 3:18 PM:
" ...I don't think that anyone in their right mind would argue that Waterloo's crime problem is not becoming CF's problem pretty fast. This is a problem the two cities need to face together and assist each other with. This crime is not going to go away on it's own, but we can work together and pull Waterloo out of the cess pool it is sliding into, and we don't have to drag CF in ourselves, or let the criminals do it for us. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 5, 2008 7:17 AM:
" Hey ozy, maybe you could make your town less attractive for criminals then they wouldn't be coming into your town. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:01 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
Generating our own crime is not a solution. Neither would restricting businesses, or otherwise limiting things like events downtown, or downright preventing private social get-togethers.
Generating our own crime is not a solution. Neither would restricting businesses, or otherwise limiting things like events downtown, or downright preventing private social get-togethers.
ozymandias wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:25 AM:
" My last comment was supposed to have a reference to the private birthday party in Cedar Falls a while back, where an uninvited Waterloo resident, who didn't even know the party goers, stabbed someone to death when he was asked to leave... "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:57 PM:
" ozy, if it takes you two posts to connect the dots, you've failed. The 24 minutes it took you to connect the second post to the first post could have been better spent helping the Waterloo PD solve a crime. We have higher expectations from you ozy. Again, you're not catching on to the "humor" thing. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:11 PM:
" Waterloo Reader,
Actually, it took that long for the Courier Editor to censor and approve my first post, me to notice it, make a comment, which was further edited, but partially approved.
I full understand humor. When you say something funny, I will be sure and remark that I see it. So far, you have just had lame attempts at humor, that should have been embarrassing. "
Actually, it took that long for the Courier Editor to censor and approve my first post, me to notice it, make a comment, which was further edited, but partially approved.
I full understand humor. When you say something funny, I will be sure and remark that I see it. So far, you have just had lame attempts at humor, that should have been embarrassing. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:08 PM:
" Sorry ozy, I guess I'm not laughing with you...I must be laughing at you. My humor is meant to entertain my friends and relatives on this site, which it often does. Anything past that is a bonus. Now where's that darn caps key? "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:59 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
Don't worry, you are amusing many more people than you realize, but certainly not in the way you expect, and not because you are funny. Well, at times you are funny, but in a horribly sad way. "
Don't worry, you are amusing many more people than you realize, but certainly not in the way you expect, and not because you are funny. Well, at times you are funny, but in a horribly sad way. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:24 AM:
" OZY, YOU, SHOULD TRY, TO CUT DOWN, ON YOUR COMMA, USAGE. I'M STILL TRYING TO FIND THAT DARN CAPS KEY. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:05 AM:
" Ah, another 'witty' comment by Waterloo Reader.
Keep up the good work. "
Keep up the good work. "
loovian wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:06 AM:
" Waterloo Reader:
Wow, you are just ever so funny. So funny, I feel bad for you. You might want to get tested c "
Wow, you are just ever so funny. So funny, I feel bad for you. You might want to get tested c "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:40 PM:
" Thank you very much. I'll be here all week. Please remember to tip your wait-staff. "
Concernedcitizen wrote on Aug 10, 2008 1:22 PM:
" You know Waterloo Reader, "you" could take some well given advice and for the time that you spend on here bringing to everyone's attention regarding cap locks, spelling, comma's, etc, "you" could have helped the PD solve a crime.
Don't be so quick to judge your fellow man.
No one is perfect and certainly not you. "
Don't be so quick to judge your fellow man.
No one is perfect and certainly not you. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 10, 2008 6:25 PM:
" How do you know I haven't solved some petty crimes in the last few weeks? The caps lock was a poke at ozymandias and you need to follow the story, not come in during the middle. I know I'm not perfect because I live in Waterloo and ozy and formerwaterlooian tell me often how stupid I am for living here. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 11, 2008 8:37 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I have asked you before to not make up lies about me. It is very immature, and reflects poorly on you. "
I have asked you before to not make up lies about me. It is very immature, and reflects poorly on you. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 11, 2008 10:10 AM:
" ozy, I'm very comfortable that I can support everything I've said about you on this forum. Have I used some sarcasm to point out how untenable some of your positions are? You bet. Have I misstated your opinions? No way. In the interest of total disclosure: I did make an observation that is medically impossible to an old friend that called me Sunday morning and asked "What do you think is wrong with ozymandias?" I'm sure that friend knows me well enough to realize that I was not making a factual statement about where anything of yours was. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 11, 2008 1:40 PM:
" Waterloo Reader:
Where have I ever stated that you were stupid simply for living in Waterloo? I have made no such claims -- the nearest I can make is that you somehow equate 'living in Waterloo' with what I have called stupid: defending criminals to the point of absurdity, against all rational discourse. I guess, given all the other failures in logic you have shown, yet another one is not unexpected.
You even miss the point that Concerned Citizen brings up, and try to yet again turn that into an insult and attack on me, and once again, you seem to be unable to do anything but fall back to your classic 'Make up a quote and attribute it to ozy'.
I am fairly flattered that you once again bring up the fact that I am somehow important enough to you to discuss with friends on the phone. Flattering -- but very creepy. "
Where have I ever stated that you were stupid simply for living in Waterloo? I have made no such claims -- the nearest I can make is that you somehow equate 'living in Waterloo' with what I have called stupid: defending criminals to the point of absurdity, against all rational discourse. I guess, given all the other failures in logic you have shown, yet another one is not unexpected.
You even miss the point that Concerned Citizen brings up, and try to yet again turn that into an insult and attack on me, and once again, you seem to be unable to do anything but fall back to your classic 'Make up a quote and attribute it to ozy'.
I am fairly flattered that you once again bring up the fact that I am somehow important enough to you to discuss with friends on the phone. Flattering -- but very creepy. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 11, 2008 9:22 PM:
" You have routinely denigrated the Waterloo educational system and you assume I am a product of that system. You have sat in CF and told us what our problems were and you can't understand why we can't fix them because all we have to do is listen to you and your bunch of merry men. You mock people that still live in Waterloo because you think we don't see the intelligence in moving.
Trust me....what was said was less than flattering but I think it was funny. "
Trust me....what was said was less than flattering but I think it was funny. "
Concernedcitizen wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:52 AM:
" What a bunch of "BS".
Waterloo Reader, I'm so sure that you have never solved any crimes in Waterloo. You are one of the "want-a-bees".
All you want to do is sit back on these blogs and insult people that may not agree with everything you post.
Stop acting like you are so superior and get back to the real world for a change. "This" world is the one with problems; maybe with less people like you, there would not be any problems. "
Waterloo Reader, I'm so sure that you have never solved any crimes in Waterloo. You are one of the "want-a-bees".
All you want to do is sit back on these blogs and insult people that may not agree with everything you post.
Stop acting like you are so superior and get back to the real world for a change. "This" world is the one with problems; maybe with less people like you, there would not be any problems. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 12, 2008 9:07 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I admit to having made comments about your education, but they have been based on the ignorant things you say -- not the educational system that you may have been a product of. I have made a guess trying to connect your ...opinions with the failing school system you try to defend, but do not misunderstand -- I have never accused you of being stupid for where you live, only what you say, and what you refuse to do about the community you are in. Tucking your head in the sand and pretending there are no problems is stupid -- being on the sand in the first place is not. "
I admit to having made comments about your education, but they have been based on the ignorant things you say -- not the educational system that you may have been a product of. I have made a guess trying to connect your ...opinions with the failing school system you try to defend, but do not misunderstand -- I have never accused you of being stupid for where you live, only what you say, and what you refuse to do about the community you are in. Tucking your head in the sand and pretending there are no problems is stupid -- being on the sand in the first place is not. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 12, 2008 11:10 AM:
" Concerned Citizen: You are simply, completely wrong. I watch my neighborhood and factually report all incidents to the Waterloo PD. I have chased down vandals and caught them and returned them to their parents or the police. I have reported crimes in progress and stayed at the scene to point out the trouble-makers to the police. I am more involved in my community than you would ever guess. I don't feel my efforts are "superior" instead I see them as similar to what many, many citizens in Waterloo are doing to improve our community. So here's my questions to you Concerned: How many acres of wildlife habitat have you preserved? How many Boy Scouts have you taken camping? How many My Waterloo Day events have you arranged? How much time have you given to local organizations that provide opportunities in fine arts for kids? How many high school sporting events have you attended to support a member of the team? Have you given even one minute to the Heartland Volunteers? I'll proudly stand on my record of giving back, can you? "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 12, 2008 1:20 PM:
" Waterloo Reader,
Sadly some of us are not eligible to do some of the 'giving back' you do. If I ever witnessed vandalism, or a crime that needed reporting, I would definitely be reporting it and keeping an eye on the escaping vandals. The simple fact of the matter is that some of us live in low crime areas, areas where it is almost unheard of to witness a crime in progress, unless one is going to count the rare car accident as a crime. You seem proud of the fact that you report things when you see them, I am proud that I live somewhere where I don't have an opportunity to see these things at all, but know full well how I would react if I did.
I guess that it is a difference in views -- I see crime as a problem, you see it as something to excuse, defend... and take pride in witnessing? "
Sadly some of us are not eligible to do some of the 'giving back' you do. If I ever witnessed vandalism, or a crime that needed reporting, I would definitely be reporting it and keeping an eye on the escaping vandals. The simple fact of the matter is that some of us live in low crime areas, areas where it is almost unheard of to witness a crime in progress, unless one is going to count the rare car accident as a crime. You seem proud of the fact that you report things when you see them, I am proud that I live somewhere where I don't have an opportunity to see these things at all, but know full well how I would react if I did.
I guess that it is a difference in views -- I see crime as a problem, you see it as something to excuse, defend... and take pride in witnessing? "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 12, 2008 4:54 PM:
" Now you've confused me ozy: I thought your position was that the crime in CF was because of your proximity to Waterloo residents (your words). Now you're saying there isn't any crime in CF. Pick a story and stick with it.
By the way, you can keep repeating the lie that I excuse and defend crime but you can support that lie. Please point to a single post where I excused or defended a crime or criminal. "
By the way, you can keep repeating the lie that I excuse and defend crime but you can support that lie. Please point to a single post where I excused or defended a crime or criminal. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 13, 2008 8:24 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I never said that all crime in CF is related to proximity to Waterloo, just that your crime problem in Waterloo is the business of residents of CF, as the criminals don't seem to mind the city borders.
I am also interested in how you take the leap from me not witnessing a crime in progress to there being no crime in CF at all. Do you attribute some sort of super hero power to me and expect me to see all of CF at all times?
I have all along said that the crime rate in CF is much lower that that of Waterloo -- meaning that the amount of crime per person in CF is lower, not non-existent. We even have the occasional violent crime, and occasionally these are even committed by a resident and not a visitor.
Another case of you twisting what I say -- either deliberately, or due to poor reading comprehension. "
I never said that all crime in CF is related to proximity to Waterloo, just that your crime problem in Waterloo is the business of residents of CF, as the criminals don't seem to mind the city borders.
I am also interested in how you take the leap from me not witnessing a crime in progress to there being no crime in CF at all. Do you attribute some sort of super hero power to me and expect me to see all of CF at all times?
I have all along said that the crime rate in CF is much lower that that of Waterloo -- meaning that the amount of crime per person in CF is lower, not non-existent. We even have the occasional violent crime, and occasionally these are even committed by a resident and not a visitor.
Another case of you twisting what I say -- either deliberately, or due to poor reading comprehension. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 13, 2008 1:31 PM:
" There certainly is "twisting" going on here and you're the one doing it. Everyone that reads this blog regularly knows what you have said in the past (all Cedar Falls crimes are committed by Waterloo residents as an example.) It's great that when you are confronted, repeatedly, with your own words that you look to move away from your indefensible positions and try not to spout out stuff that will come back to bite you. If these exchanges do nothing more than cause you to pause to review your content before posting then my work here was worth it. Take a reasonable position at the outset and you won't have to crab-walk on it later. That's my two-cents worth from this side of the wall. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 14, 2008 8:33 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
I have never stated that all crime in CF was caused by Waterloo residents. I have debunked this claim of your ad nauseum. I have never even made a claim that all crime in CF was by non-residents. I *have* pointed out that Waterloo's crime problem does overflow into CF, showing your claim that Waterloo's crime is not CF's business for the absurdity that it is. I have also pointed out that the vast majority of crime in CF, particularly the serious crimes of murder, and assault with weapons have resulted in convictions on non-CF residents.
There is no 'crab-walking' going on, or changing of my position at all. It is possible that your flawed understanding of what I am saying is changing, or what you are wishing I am saying is changing.
I have a hard time understanding if you make up quotes from me, and misrepresent what I say simply because you are unable or unwilling to understand what I am saying. Thankfully, I have no worries that other readers of this site will be getting confused for long. Most of them seem ready, willing, and able to maintain an intelligent dialogue, and your arguments are quickly debunked simply by reading the comments on this site. "
I have never stated that all crime in CF was caused by Waterloo residents. I have debunked this claim of your ad nauseum. I have never even made a claim that all crime in CF was by non-residents. I *have* pointed out that Waterloo's crime problem does overflow into CF, showing your claim that Waterloo's crime is not CF's business for the absurdity that it is. I have also pointed out that the vast majority of crime in CF, particularly the serious crimes of murder, and assault with weapons have resulted in convictions on non-CF residents.
There is no 'crab-walking' going on, or changing of my position at all. It is possible that your flawed understanding of what I am saying is changing, or what you are wishing I am saying is changing.
I have a hard time understanding if you make up quotes from me, and misrepresent what I say simply because you are unable or unwilling to understand what I am saying. Thankfully, I have no worries that other readers of this site will be getting confused for long. Most of them seem ready, willing, and able to maintain an intelligent dialogue, and your arguments are quickly debunked simply by reading the comments on this site. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 14, 2008 9:15 AM:
" Really ozy? As I travel around this site I see lots of people having problems with you and your opinions. I'll let the community decide if I'm fairly representing your statements and innuendos. If I've magnified your position to point out the absurdity of your comments I'm OK with that as well. Don't denigrate the entire population of Waterloo or mock our educational system and I'll try to leave you alone. Do you wonder why I don't say negative things about Cedar Falls, her residents or the school system? Your quip is probably that each of those things are perfect. The truth is that I was raised better. What I was told as a young lad is that if you're not willing to be part of the solution, stay out of it. There's always enough crows squawking on the wire, they're just useless. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 14, 2008 11:58 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
It doesn't matter what you are 'OK with'. The fact remains that you constantly, and consistently misrepresent what I say. You are the one insulting the readers of this site by pretending that they cannot read my opinions themselves.
Since I am not attacking, insulting or mocking the 'entire population of Waterloo' I should be fine on that account -- or are you going to continue claiming that an attack or insult to the criminals in Waterloo is an attack on the entire population? I know many people that would be more insulted by your insinuation that they are a criminal, than by what I say about criminals.
As to mocking your educational system, I am not sorry to say that I have a problem with an educational system that has such a poor track record that 1/4 the students that start high school do not complete it with a degree. This is the 21st century, and, regardless of recent disasters, no portion of Iowa is in a third world country, so this is understandably something of an issue for most people.
While nothing is perfect in Cedar Falls, it is very hard for someone from a city that averages a shooting every other day, and a 1 in 4 high school failure rate to talk bad about the crime rate in a town that only sees a shooting every few years, or the educational system where only 1 in 100 students is let down.
Since you seem to be on an old fashioned phrase kick today, I will toss one out to you: Waterloo residents talking bad about CF crime or educational systems is worse than the pot calling the kettle black, it is the pot calling the sugarbowl black.
While you might think avoiding problems and not discussing issues is a result of 'being raised better', I was taught that meeting issues head on, and working through the issues, from pointing out problems and solutions to acting out the ideas is a good thing. Some of the problems my town faces is the spillover from Waterloo in crime, so by helping Waterloo, I help myself and my neighbors fairly directly. Don't get me wrong, (I feel the need to spell this out, as you tend to work very hard to get me wrong), but not all the issues in CF are spill overs from Waterloo, but enough of them are that it makes sense to address them first. Plugging holes in the dike is useless if the water is already pouring over the top.
Some medicine is bitter, but it is better than the alternatives. "
It doesn't matter what you are 'OK with'. The fact remains that you constantly, and consistently misrepresent what I say. You are the one insulting the readers of this site by pretending that they cannot read my opinions themselves.
Since I am not attacking, insulting or mocking the 'entire population of Waterloo' I should be fine on that account -- or are you going to continue claiming that an attack or insult to the criminals in Waterloo is an attack on the entire population? I know many people that would be more insulted by your insinuation that they are a criminal, than by what I say about criminals.
As to mocking your educational system, I am not sorry to say that I have a problem with an educational system that has such a poor track record that 1/4 the students that start high school do not complete it with a degree. This is the 21st century, and, regardless of recent disasters, no portion of Iowa is in a third world country, so this is understandably something of an issue for most people.
While nothing is perfect in Cedar Falls, it is very hard for someone from a city that averages a shooting every other day, and a 1 in 4 high school failure rate to talk bad about the crime rate in a town that only sees a shooting every few years, or the educational system where only 1 in 100 students is let down.
Since you seem to be on an old fashioned phrase kick today, I will toss one out to you: Waterloo residents talking bad about CF crime or educational systems is worse than the pot calling the kettle black, it is the pot calling the sugarbowl black.
While you might think avoiding problems and not discussing issues is a result of 'being raised better', I was taught that meeting issues head on, and working through the issues, from pointing out problems and solutions to acting out the ideas is a good thing. Some of the problems my town faces is the spillover from Waterloo in crime, so by helping Waterloo, I help myself and my neighbors fairly directly. Don't get me wrong, (I feel the need to spell this out, as you tend to work very hard to get me wrong), but not all the issues in CF are spill overs from Waterloo, but enough of them are that it makes sense to address them first. Plugging holes in the dike is useless if the water is already pouring over the top.
Some medicine is bitter, but it is better than the alternatives. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 14, 2008 4:45 PM:
" ozy you are twisting things again so I hope that you've got your story right where you want it. Waterloo does not average a shooting every other day. You are wrong. To be clear, you state that the drop out rate from Freshman to Senior year in CF is 1%? You want to think about that before we do the research?
Here's the big ozyism for the day: I have never, ever read a single comment on this blog where anyone attacked the CF educational system. You slipped that in so smoothly so that people might believe that crock but it didn't happen. The only people "talking bad" about the CF crime situation is the folks that like to point out to you that every serious crime in CF is not the fault of Waterloo residents (your statement which I can paste on here if you need it.)
Oddly enough you use active verbs to describe your role in helping Waterloo solve our problems; "acting out the ideas, working through the issues:. This is where I take issue with you: You are missing the action part. I will ask you, again, what actions have you specifically engaged in to help Waterloo? What have your "actions" been and tell us about your "work." I have asked for this in a number of different posts but haven't seen an answer. Your idea of "action" appears to be gum-flapping from the West. Again, sorry to insult you, but we don't need it. Here's another phrase you've undoubtedly heard over and over in your life: "All hat, no brain." "
Here's the big ozyism for the day: I have never, ever read a single comment on this blog where anyone attacked the CF educational system. You slipped that in so smoothly so that people might believe that crock but it didn't happen. The only people "talking bad" about the CF crime situation is the folks that like to point out to you that every serious crime in CF is not the fault of Waterloo residents (your statement which I can paste on here if you need it.)
Oddly enough you use active verbs to describe your role in helping Waterloo solve our problems; "acting out the ideas, working through the issues:. This is where I take issue with you: You are missing the action part. I will ask you, again, what actions have you specifically engaged in to help Waterloo? What have your "actions" been and tell us about your "work." I have asked for this in a number of different posts but haven't seen an answer. Your idea of "action" appears to be gum-flapping from the West. Again, sorry to insult you, but we don't need it. Here's another phrase you've undoubtedly heard over and over in your life: "All hat, no brain." "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:46 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
Sorry I was not completely clear. I occasionally forget that I have to spell everything out for you, as you love to try and twist everything I say into a Straw Man.
I did not intend for you to think I was accusing people from Waterloo of attacking the CF educational system, I was showing why they do not. I was using an older phrase to explain that the average Waterloo resident is not hypocrite enough to attack an educational track record better than their own.
As for graduation rates of the two towns, you are correct. It appears that the statistics for both districts have been updated. CF has fallen to a 98% graduation rate, and I am very sorry for misleading you with my 99% statistic. On the other hand, Waterloo schools fell as well, from the 75% I quoted you to a 67% graduation rate. Please except my apologies for using incorrect, outdated statistics. For your reading pleasure, here are a pair of links. Feel free to check my numbers:
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/29406 <-- Cedar Falls
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/agency_schools/leaid/1930480 <-Waterloo
While my comment about the shooting every other day in Waterloo was indeed hyperbole, the number of shootings in Waterloo last month did indeed approach the 15 shootings mark, between all the drive-by, bike-by, walk-by, and shooting at parked cars. I assumed that people would understand that I was not literally stating that every other day a shooting occurred in Waterloo. I thought the 'averages' in my post would clear that up.
I am sorry that you are asking questions and not bothering to read the answers. That does sound like a personal problem. I am sorry that you waffle so badly on the issue of outside assistance. Some days you attack everyone from outside Waterloo and tell them to mind their own business, and some days you sit around and demand that they come in and solve your problems for you. I have stated and outline of my regular volunteer activities and donations in the past, but I can recap them in more detail for you if you would like. I volunteer for both the CF and Waterloo libraries. I volunteer with local scout troops that has members from both cities -- even though I do not have a child (or even a relation) in those troops. Granted the majority of the members are from CF, as the meeting locations are in eastern CF. I volunteer at the local scout camp. I volunteer many hours to the county park system, cleaning up, maintaining, and fund raising. I have worked with both Habitat for Humanity in the area, as well as a religious based knock off of that organization that focused completely on buying and renovating homes in the east side of Waterloo. I have volunteered for the Cedar Valley food bank.
I average about 10-12 hours a week of volunteer time, with that jumping to 20-30 in the fall when the county parks start gearing up for the haunted house. The majority of what I volunteer is county based, and not all that specific to either town. I am doing a little less public volunteering this summer, as I have, and still am, helping flood victims that I know clean-up, tear-down, and rebuild. "
Sorry I was not completely clear. I occasionally forget that I have to spell everything out for you, as you love to try and twist everything I say into a Straw Man.
I did not intend for you to think I was accusing people from Waterloo of attacking the CF educational system, I was showing why they do not. I was using an older phrase to explain that the average Waterloo resident is not hypocrite enough to attack an educational track record better than their own.
As for graduation rates of the two towns, you are correct. It appears that the statistics for both districts have been updated. CF has fallen to a 98% graduation rate, and I am very sorry for misleading you with my 99% statistic. On the other hand, Waterloo schools fell as well, from the 75% I quoted you to a 67% graduation rate. Please except my apologies for using incorrect, outdated statistics. For your reading pleasure, here are a pair of links. Feel free to check my numbers:
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/29406 <-- Cedar Falls
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/agency_schools/leaid/1930480 <-Waterloo
While my comment about the shooting every other day in Waterloo was indeed hyperbole, the number of shootings in Waterloo last month did indeed approach the 15 shootings mark, between all the drive-by, bike-by, walk-by, and shooting at parked cars. I assumed that people would understand that I was not literally stating that every other day a shooting occurred in Waterloo. I thought the 'averages' in my post would clear that up.
I am sorry that you are asking questions and not bothering to read the answers. That does sound like a personal problem. I am sorry that you waffle so badly on the issue of outside assistance. Some days you attack everyone from outside Waterloo and tell them to mind their own business, and some days you sit around and demand that they come in and solve your problems for you. I have stated and outline of my regular volunteer activities and donations in the past, but I can recap them in more detail for you if you would like. I volunteer for both the CF and Waterloo libraries. I volunteer with local scout troops that has members from both cities -- even though I do not have a child (or even a relation) in those troops. Granted the majority of the members are from CF, as the meeting locations are in eastern CF. I volunteer at the local scout camp. I volunteer many hours to the county park system, cleaning up, maintaining, and fund raising. I have worked with both Habitat for Humanity in the area, as well as a religious based knock off of that organization that focused completely on buying and renovating homes in the east side of Waterloo. I have volunteered for the Cedar Valley food bank.
I average about 10-12 hours a week of volunteer time, with that jumping to 20-30 in the fall when the county parks start gearing up for the haunted house. The majority of what I volunteer is county based, and not all that specific to either town. I am doing a little less public volunteering this summer, as I have, and still am, helping flood victims that I know clean-up, tear-down, and rebuild. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 15, 2008 9:37 AM:
" You must have 13 points to your Scout Law...yours must include "Critical." We have undoubtedly run into each other at Ingawanis or a Round Table somewhere but I'll have to keep better track of the company I keep. If your work with Scouting was in a Waterloo Troop that served some less fortunate areas you could maybe point to that as helping deter crime in Waterloo but I don't think that's an issue with 55 or 44. You would seem to be a good source when we are discussing housing issues but I don't really see anything that makes you an expert on our crime problems. Here's a challenge for you: Spend as much time with us down at the Waterloo Boys and Girls club as you do with the white-bread scout troop in Cedar Falls. Better yet, charter a troop (or Venturing Crew) out of the Waterloo Boys and Girls Club. You are most critical of the Waterloo crime issue and the problems you see with the Waterloo Schools. Drop the library gig and call up Michelle Tiemeyer and ask her to volunteer at Logan or East. Then I will listen carefully when you share an opinion. Until then I will continue to poke at you when you make statements that can't be backed up. "
ozymandias wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:27 AM:
" Waterloo Reader,
You asked me what I volunteer at that helps Waterloo. I listed some of my activities. I am going to guess that no matter what I do, it will never be enough for you, especially since you move the goalposts. I listed my activities that benefit Waterloo, which is a perfect answer to your question, and get attacked because you don't feel that I do enough to help crime in Waterloo. You are actually asking me to stop donating time to help my community, at an activity that I enjoy, in order to take time doing an activity I neither have the time, nor motivation to do (starting a scout troop is not a simple matter, and it takes a lot of time), in order to improve your city directly, and my community only by extension. I'm sure you are going to come back with some hair brained excuse as to why my volunteering schedule is not up to par, and not doing enough to help Waterloo. When you move the goalposts, you can make some outlandish claims.
First you make the claim that I have no right to comment on crime in Waterloo, as I am not (currently) from there. Then it was that I was doing nothing to help Waterloo. You even used sandbagging as an example. Then it was that I am not doing enough with the Boys and Girls Club. What next? That I am not volunteering to assist some specific family or person? in a specific way? at a specific time? wearing a specific outfit? I am just asking where you are taking the goalposts, so I can try and see if it is even worth meeting you at the final location.
Today you seem to hold the opinion that someone from 'outside' is going to have to come in and bail out your city -- by taking time they spend volunteering away from their own city. Interesting that you follow the 'logic' that in order to help better my community, I need to stop helping my community directly, and go address the issue in another community. I would hazard that the direct benefit that the time I give Cedar Falls outweighs the indirect benefit Cedar Falls would get from me donating my time to starting a Scout Troop. In the same amount of time that I could start a troop, I can get a lot done here, directly, and help with many issues to a significant extent. Conversely, I can take that time, and go start a troop and hope that it has a measurable impact on Cedar Falls. It seems your sense of scale is as faulty as your sense of logic.
It is interesting to see that in the time since I have started commenting and being a gadfly on this site, the number of posters that are willing to speak up in the fact of your attacks has gone up. My 'gum-flapping' has done more than expose you for what you are, it has shown people that not everyone accepts and expects crime, and that many people actually expect more from their communities and police than 'Just another day in (any city name here)'.
Feel free to poke at me when I make a statement that can't be backed up. I assume that since I have made no such claims, you are going to show a little maturity, then. It will definitely be a nice change. Again, sorry I was wrong on those statistics above, but I feel that I was close enough to the target of Cedar Falls, to consider that as backing me up -- and well, I was way off on Waterloo -- I was way too high, and over-reported how good the schools were, but in spirit, I was still backed up. "
You asked me what I volunteer at that helps Waterloo. I listed some of my activities. I am going to guess that no matter what I do, it will never be enough for you, especially since you move the goalposts. I listed my activities that benefit Waterloo, which is a perfect answer to your question, and get attacked because you don't feel that I do enough to help crime in Waterloo. You are actually asking me to stop donating time to help my community, at an activity that I enjoy, in order to take time doing an activity I neither have the time, nor motivation to do (starting a scout troop is not a simple matter, and it takes a lot of time), in order to improve your city directly, and my community only by extension. I'm sure you are going to come back with some hair brained excuse as to why my volunteering schedule is not up to par, and not doing enough to help Waterloo. When you move the goalposts, you can make some outlandish claims.
First you make the claim that I have no right to comment on crime in Waterloo, as I am not (currently) from there. Then it was that I was doing nothing to help Waterloo. You even used sandbagging as an example. Then it was that I am not doing enough with the Boys and Girls Club. What next? That I am not volunteering to assist some specific family or person? in a specific way? at a specific time? wearing a specific outfit? I am just asking where you are taking the goalposts, so I can try and see if it is even worth meeting you at the final location.
Today you seem to hold the opinion that someone from 'outside' is going to have to come in and bail out your city -- by taking time they spend volunteering away from their own city. Interesting that you follow the 'logic' that in order to help better my community, I need to stop helping my community directly, and go address the issue in another community. I would hazard that the direct benefit that the time I give Cedar Falls outweighs the indirect benefit Cedar Falls would get from me donating my time to starting a Scout Troop. In the same amount of time that I could start a troop, I can get a lot done here, directly, and help with many issues to a significant extent. Conversely, I can take that time, and go start a troop and hope that it has a measurable impact on Cedar Falls. It seems your sense of scale is as faulty as your sense of logic.
It is interesting to see that in the time since I have started commenting and being a gadfly on this site, the number of posters that are willing to speak up in the fact of your attacks has gone up. My 'gum-flapping' has done more than expose you for what you are, it has shown people that not everyone accepts and expects crime, and that many people actually expect more from their communities and police than 'Just another day in (any city name here)'.
Feel free to poke at me when I make a statement that can't be backed up. I assume that since I have made no such claims, you are going to show a little maturity, then. It will definitely be a nice change. Again, sorry I was wrong on those statistics above, but I feel that I was close enough to the target of Cedar Falls, to consider that as backing me up -- and well, I was way off on Waterloo -- I was way too high, and over-reported how good the schools were, but in spirit, I was still backed up. "
Waterloo Reader wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:14 PM:
" As long as we can agree that your volunteer efforts are doing nothing useful to help the Waterloo crime issue then we can agree that your opinion is not needed. Same with the schools: You can have your opinion but when you share it with us we will ask you what you are doing about the problem and we can now agree that your volunteer efforts are not helping the Waterloo Schools. Again, we won't be needing your opinion. You can feel free to share your learned opinion on the inner-workings of the public library system in the cedar valley and any opinion you have on low-income housing solutions in inner-city neighborhoods.
Let's also be really clear on this misstatement of yours: "Today you seem to hold the opinion that someone from 'outside' is going to have to come in and bail out your city." We don't need your help but if you insist on gum-flapping then you'll need to pick up a shovel and help us dig the ditch. There are literally thousands of people that are voluntarily addressing the crime and school issues in Waterloo that you have such a problem with. Their opinion is valuable to any discussion because they know the problems and are participating in the solutions. You think you know the problems and feel that's enough to hold equal footing with those of us that are working towards the solutions. It's not. A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, critical..... "
Let's also be really clear on this misstatement of yours: "Today you seem to hold the opinion that someone from 'outside' is going to have to come in and bail out your city." We don't need your help but if you insist on gum-flapping then you'll need to pick up a shovel and help us dig the ditch. There are literally thousands of people that are voluntarily addressing the crime and school issues in Waterloo that you have such a problem with. Their opinion is valuable to any discussion because they know the problems and are participating in the solutions. You think you know the problems and feel that's enough to hold equal footing with those of us that are working towards the solutions. It's not. A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, critical..... "
Due to the amount of spam and negative comments received, the Courier implement a registered-user system for participation in the comment portion of our site. In doing so, the Courier reserves the right to ban any user(s) at any time without notice if we feel they are not following the terms of agreement.
DISCLAIMER: The Courier provides our story commenting feature in order to solicit feedback, debate and discussion on topics of local interest. Please keep in mind that civility is a necessary component of productive conversation. All blatantly inflammatory or otherwise inappropriate comments (i.e. vulgarity, marketing, etc.) are subject to rejection and/or removal. Comments will appear if and when they are approved. For a more in-depth explanation of our policy, please see our Rules of the Road. Thanks for reading, and thanks for participating.
~ADVERTISEMENT~
NEWS |
SPORTS |
COMMUNITY |
BUSINESS |
ENTERTAINMENT |
FEATURES |
OPINIONS |
OBITUARIES |
CLASSIFIEDS |
PRIVACY POLICY |
CONTACT US |
CARRIER PAGES
|
ozymandias wrote on Jul 28, 2008 11:48 AM: