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The National Cattle Congress grounds have been lit up every night this week. The grounds have been rented by the federal government for reasons they have not disclosed.
RICK CHASE / Courier Staff Photographer
RICK CHASE / Courier Staff Photographer
~ADVERTISING~
ICE activity at NCC sparks fear among Latinos
By JENS MANUEL KROGSTAD, Courier Staff Writer
WATERLOO --- The presence of immigration officials at National Cattle Congress has stoked fears of an impending raid and caused some in the Hispanic community to avoid workplaces and public areas.
Four days after The Courier first reported the installation of trailers, generators and ventilation equipment on the grounds, the presence of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement remains a mystery. Tim Counts, an ICE spokesman in the Twin Cities, refused comment on Tuesday. He said he didn't know when, or if, the agency would explain its activities.
NCC officials said they were told the grounds were rented for a training exercise and that the Federal Emergency Management Agency was involved. FEMA and ICE both fall under the command of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
On April 24, FEMA announced it was conducting a national-level training exercise in May "to prepare and respond to multiple incidents including both natural disasters and terrorist incidents." Exercise scenarios included a Category 4 hurricane impacting the mid-Atlantic coast and the national Capitol complex; multiple terrorist attacks in Washington state; and an accidental chemical release at a chemical depot in Oregon.
The FEMA release did not specify the location or locations of the exercise, some of the objectives of which are to test communications and interagency coordination.
While the release indicated "a combined functional and full-scale exercise" would be conducted May 1-8, the government has leased the NCC grounds through May 25.
Neither NCC nor the federal government would confirm whether federal officials are using the NCC grounds as part of the national exercise. In response to an inquiry by The Courier, U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley's office requested a briefing on the use of the NCC grounds, but was told ICE officials would neither confirm nor deny anything. Similarly, U.S. Rep. Bruce Braley's office was unable to obtain additional information.
Mark Grey, an immigration expert and University of Northern Iowa professor, said the grounds at NCC appear to have a capacity similar to that the Iowa National Guard armory in Fort Dodge. That is where authorities held suspects after a 2006 raid of a Swift meat processing plant in Marshalltown.
But in that instance, he said, authorities kept their plans secret.
"I ask myself, 'What are they planning, and why are they being so bloody obvious about it?'" he said. "Maybe it is a training exercise, but why would they go to all that expense?"
Laura de Gomez, owner of La Placita, a grocery store and restaurant, said she received a call Sunday from a woman wondering if it was safe to make a trip to the store for food. It is one of many frantic calls and questions de Gomez and other leaders in the Latino community have fielded in recent days.
Not everyone concerned about an immigration raid lives in the country illegally, de Gomez noted. Many legal residents have family and friends at risk of deportation.
Gomez and other community leaders said the refusal by ICE officials to comment has frustrated efforts to calm fears.
After people whispered false rumors about immigration arrests at Saturday's Cinco de Mayo celebration in downtown Waterloo, de Gomez took to the air on Radio La Buena, a Spanish-language radio station in Cedar Falls, to give people the latest news.
"It's very distressing sometimes because you don't know what to tell people," she said. "The thing I'm concerned about is that the rumors start getting crazy and it causes panic."
The Rev. Jose Comparan, who leads the Hispanic ministry at Queen of Peace Catholic Church, said he first heard rumors of an immigration raid a few weeks ago. People told him workers were fired from the Tyson meatpacking plant in Waterloo because they lacked proper documentation, and they assumed a raid would soon follow.
Grey, the UNI professor, said when companies know a raid is coming, they often will fully cooperate with federal authorities to avoid prosecution. He has heard "persistent rumors" that companies engage in pre-emptive firings to avoid legal trouble, but said he has no proof of such actions.
Tyson Foods spokesman Gary Mickelson would not comment on the alleged firings. In an e-mailed statement, he said the company has "zero tolerance" for unauthorized workers.
"If the worker is unable to resolve any discrepancies in their documentation, then they are released from employment," he said.
Alexandra Frazier, a case worker at El Centro Latinoamericano, helped two natives of the Dominican Republic after they said they were let go.
Francisco Vilorio Correa, 60, and Tinidad Noemi del Carmen, 30, said Tyson Foods fired them on April 23 because, despite their best efforts, they couldn't prove their legal status to the company's satisfaction. They estimated they were two of more than 20 people fired that day.
The pair said they double-checked their documents with a local Social Security office and presented them to Tyson again two days later in hopes of returning to the production line. But management, they said, told them their documents --- a Social Security number, a state-issued ID and a passport --- were not sufficient to prove their legal status.
In an e-mailed statement, Mickelson did not confirm or deny the workers' story, and did not comment on the timing of the alleged firings.
"As part of our best management practices we regularly audit the work authorization documents we have on file, however, it would not be appropriate for us to comment further since we consider individual personnel matters confidential," he said.
Contact Jens Manuel Krogstad at (319) 291-1580 or jens.krogstad@wcfcourier.com.
Four days after The Courier first reported the installation of trailers, generators and ventilation equipment on the grounds, the presence of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement remains a mystery. Tim Counts, an ICE spokesman in the Twin Cities, refused comment on Tuesday. He said he didn't know when, or if, the agency would explain its activities.
NCC officials said they were told the grounds were rented for a training exercise and that the Federal Emergency Management Agency was involved. FEMA and ICE both fall under the command of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
On April 24, FEMA announced it was conducting a national-level training exercise in May "to prepare and respond to multiple incidents including both natural disasters and terrorist incidents." Exercise scenarios included a Category 4 hurricane impacting the mid-Atlantic coast and the national Capitol complex; multiple terrorist attacks in Washington state; and an accidental chemical release at a chemical depot in Oregon.
The FEMA release did not specify the location or locations of the exercise, some of the objectives of which are to test communications and interagency coordination.
While the release indicated "a combined functional and full-scale exercise" would be conducted May 1-8, the government has leased the NCC grounds through May 25.
Neither NCC nor the federal government would confirm whether federal officials are using the NCC grounds as part of the national exercise. In response to an inquiry by The Courier, U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley's office requested a briefing on the use of the NCC grounds, but was told ICE officials would neither confirm nor deny anything. Similarly, U.S. Rep. Bruce Braley's office was unable to obtain additional information.
Mark Grey, an immigration expert and University of Northern Iowa professor, said the grounds at NCC appear to have a capacity similar to that the Iowa National Guard armory in Fort Dodge. That is where authorities held suspects after a 2006 raid of a Swift meat processing plant in Marshalltown.
But in that instance, he said, authorities kept their plans secret.
"I ask myself, 'What are they planning, and why are they being so bloody obvious about it?'" he said. "Maybe it is a training exercise, but why would they go to all that expense?"
Laura de Gomez, owner of La Placita, a grocery store and restaurant, said she received a call Sunday from a woman wondering if it was safe to make a trip to the store for food. It is one of many frantic calls and questions de Gomez and other leaders in the Latino community have fielded in recent days.
Not everyone concerned about an immigration raid lives in the country illegally, de Gomez noted. Many legal residents have family and friends at risk of deportation.
Gomez and other community leaders said the refusal by ICE officials to comment has frustrated efforts to calm fears.
After people whispered false rumors about immigration arrests at Saturday's Cinco de Mayo celebration in downtown Waterloo, de Gomez took to the air on Radio La Buena, a Spanish-language radio station in Cedar Falls, to give people the latest news.
"It's very distressing sometimes because you don't know what to tell people," she said. "The thing I'm concerned about is that the rumors start getting crazy and it causes panic."
The Rev. Jose Comparan, who leads the Hispanic ministry at Queen of Peace Catholic Church, said he first heard rumors of an immigration raid a few weeks ago. People told him workers were fired from the Tyson meatpacking plant in Waterloo because they lacked proper documentation, and they assumed a raid would soon follow.
Grey, the UNI professor, said when companies know a raid is coming, they often will fully cooperate with federal authorities to avoid prosecution. He has heard "persistent rumors" that companies engage in pre-emptive firings to avoid legal trouble, but said he has no proof of such actions.
Tyson Foods spokesman Gary Mickelson would not comment on the alleged firings. In an e-mailed statement, he said the company has "zero tolerance" for unauthorized workers.
"If the worker is unable to resolve any discrepancies in their documentation, then they are released from employment," he said.
Alexandra Frazier, a case worker at El Centro Latinoamericano, helped two natives of the Dominican Republic after they said they were let go.
Francisco Vilorio Correa, 60, and Tinidad Noemi del Carmen, 30, said Tyson Foods fired them on April 23 because, despite their best efforts, they couldn't prove their legal status to the company's satisfaction. They estimated they were two of more than 20 people fired that day.
The pair said they double-checked their documents with a local Social Security office and presented them to Tyson again two days later in hopes of returning to the production line. But management, they said, told them their documents --- a Social Security number, a state-issued ID and a passport --- were not sufficient to prove their legal status.
In an e-mailed statement, Mickelson did not confirm or deny the workers' story, and did not comment on the timing of the alleged firings.
"As part of our best management practices we regularly audit the work authorization documents we have on file, however, it would not be appropriate for us to comment further since we consider individual personnel matters confidential," he said.
Contact Jens Manuel Krogstad at (319) 291-1580 or jens.krogstad@wcfcourier.com.
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Buzzcat wrote on May 7, 2008 1:43 PM:
" ....she received a call Sunday from a woman wondering if it was safe to make a trip to the store for food.
Um, yeah, unless you're an ILLEGAL "
Um, yeah, unless you're an ILLEGAL "
unionlabel wrote on May 7, 2008 2:24 PM:
" Its high time that the goverment crack down on illegals. Enforce the law!!!! "
a6g wrote on May 7, 2008 2:27 PM:
" Why should ICE activity scare anyone that is living in America? They aren't after legal citizens folks; they want the ILLEGALS. If you are scared by Immigration and Customs Enforcement activity in Waterloo, Iowa; you probably SHOULD NOT BE HERE. "
andy1 wrote on May 7, 2008 2:46 PM:
" I hope they are planning a raid. Even if they aren't, at least it forced Tyson to fire their illegal workers. If they can't find work they will be forced to go home and come back legally. That should be the goal of everyone.
I feel sorry for all the people who are in bad circumstances and want to come to our great country, but that doesn't give them any excuse for sneaking in our back door! If something bad happens to me I don't expect anyone to just turn the other way while I go shoplifting even though I am only steeling things I need. "
I feel sorry for all the people who are in bad circumstances and want to come to our great country, but that doesn't give them any excuse for sneaking in our back door! If something bad happens to me I don't expect anyone to just turn the other way while I go shoplifting even though I am only steeling things I need. "
LooGirl wrote on May 7, 2008 2:46 PM:
" If they are illegal then they should be deported and they should be afraid. If your not illegal you have nothing to worry about. "
rodriguezlk wrote on May 7, 2008 2:50 PM:
" Tyson's kills me!!!! They send buses to pick people up at the border in Texas!!! WOW! Every time something like this happens they do their own little pre-sweep and a month later hire the same people back with different papers and SS#'s. What a rat trap!!!! They use these people and throw them out like trash-so people like Kraut have some entertainment to feed their fire!!! "
jcbr wrote on May 7, 2008 2:55 PM:
" these illegals are milking the area of wellfare houseing medical school funds and food stamps / i hope there is a raid / there are many American xitzens who paid taxes all their lives cant get help / you want to be in AMERICA get legal stay off wellfare stay outa crime drugs and gangs / illegals have no rights here just as i have no rights in another country / illegal hit the curb for mexico "
think wrote on May 7, 2008 3:47 PM:
" well a6g we agree on this issue. Welcome ICE and stay as long as you like. "
BubbaG wrote on May 7, 2008 4:32 PM:
" The courier needs to relax about this whole thing. So what if they are going to conduct a raid, that's their job! Any latinos that are concerned probably are here illegally. Ones that went the right route and obtained US citizenship have nothing to worry about. "
AL3Indians wrote on May 7, 2008 4:32 PM:
" What is the point of this article? It does not state any NEW facts. The Courier needs to focus on real news and publish facts, not rumors. "
hetfield wrote on May 7, 2008 5:01 PM:
" Amazing some are worried about the illegals. Ship em out and dont let them back in.
It's time to tighten our borders. "
It's time to tighten our borders. "
soldierboy wrote on May 7, 2008 5:03 PM:
" I don't care how they got here; If they are illegal, they need to be arrested and deported. If Tyson has any illegal employees, then they should have to pay massive fines to preclude them from hiring illegals next time. Get rid of them, they are ILLEGAL. "
mytigger wrote on May 7, 2008 5:52 PM:
" I agree with everyone here. If you are scared about them being here, than you are an illegal! This area probably has many illegals and it's time they do a huge shake down! They are taking $ away from the actual citizens that need it! If you want to be a citizen here, than go about it the RIGHT way! "
br549 wrote on May 7, 2008 6:47 PM:
" after the DEA raid in San Diego, the students better watch out. "
barbie200455 wrote on May 7, 2008 7:02 PM:
" If you are here illegally, then you should be afraid. It's about time that the govt. cracks down all of the illegals. Our state will be the next bankrupt one at the rate we are going. If you are here illegally, run for the border!!!! Take la familia with you as well. "
pacerintl wrote on May 7, 2008 8:13 PM:
" Kicking illegals out in the short term is an easy answer but it will create a long term headache. Most of the illegals in Iowa are young....unlike almost everyone else in Iowa. They have chiildren at a rate much higher typical Iowans,,,and yes creates a temporarey burden on the system but the babies they have are U.S. citizens. They are the future students, college students, workers and tax payers of Iowa...they are the future of Iowa, (outside of Des Moines, Cedar Rapids or Iowa City)...assuming it has one. Take a look at your demographics Iowans...who's gonna be putting money into the state treasury in just ten years?
The younge people born, raised and educated in Iowa have been moving elsewhere for years.
Who is going detassle all that corn? "
The younge people born, raised and educated in Iowa have been moving elsewhere for years.
Who is going detassle all that corn? "
Waterloo-Dan wrote on May 7, 2008 9:17 PM:
" When I saw the headline "ICE Activity at NCC sparks fear among Latinos," I thought we ALL SHOULD BE AFRAID of the Department of "Homeland Security" invading our town. With the current administration's total disregard for the law and the constitution we should all be VERY concerned about a "secret mission" in our town. We all should be demanding an explanation for this dubious activity. We as taxpayers have a right to know what our government is doing--especially when it is happening in OUR town! "
HarleyBoy1961 wrote on May 7, 2008 10:07 PM:
" If you are legal, stay, work, pay taxes, insurance, etc. If you are illegal, I'm sorry, but you need to leave our country for your own until you gain legal status, because your are in violation of our laws. Your own country would not tolerate our own illegal status in your country either. "
MexAmer43 wrote on May 7, 2008 10:40 PM:
" I am a Mexican American and after reading these comments I ask myself are all these people that Dumb in bealieving that we dont need illegal immigrants in America and especially in Iowa. If you enjoy the low cost of Pork,Housing,Milk and pretty much anything that requires backbreaking work thank an illegal immigrant. By the way illegal immigrants dont qualify for public assistance,and they do pay taxes look it up its IRS form W7 "
a6g wrote on May 7, 2008 10:53 PM:
" pacer, what you just said is one of the main problems with immigration in America. In no way, shape, or form should an illegal's child that they pop out in America become a United States citizen. No way, no how. That is NOT what the founding father's set up for our Country. If you go down to Mexico, is your child then a Mexican citizen? I think not... This is why we need conservative Supreme Court Justices, to make sure that bogus interpretations of our Constitution can be minimized as much as possible... "
jcbr wrote on May 8, 2008 12:47 AM:
" i think the assumption if the baby of a illegal is born in the us makes them a us citzen / i dont think thats true / i think one parent has to be a us citzen before a offspring canbe afforded citzenship / would someone verifly that please ? when these employers hire illegals the public needs to boycott their bussiness and products / the illegals cause the wage scale to lower in turn causes Americans to become poorer except the employers get bigger profits / the wellfare cost for illegals is more than the 2 wars combined check the internet and you ll see im correct / homeland sur spends billions and we still have more than 12 million illegals we know nothing about i can t call it a joke because its very seriuos/ u can agree or disagree America is being destroyed within itself by cooperations and politicians "
Mafi wrote on May 8, 2008 12:54 AM:
" I feel offended by the title of this article, which implies that all Latinos in Iowa are here ilegally. This only reinforces stereotypes which feed myths like those repeated by jcbr (judging by his/her grammar and spelling, I am assuming that English is not her/his native language). The reality is that ONLY CITIZENS are eligible for means-tested benefits (food stamps, welfare, medicaid, medicare, etc). Not even permanent residents (green card-holders) are eligible for those benefits. It is true that children of undocumented aliens get some of those benefits, but THOSE CHILDREN ARE U.S. CITIZENS and, thus, entitled to them. Study after study (among the latest, was that of the President's Council of Economic Advisers) show the positive impact that immigration (illegal immigration) has on the U.S. economy:see that document at http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.html.
Finally, illegal is not the same as criminal. Immigration law is administrative law, not crimininal. Undocumented immigrants are here ilegally, breaking immigration law, hence the term "illegal", but just being here without authorization is NOT a crime.
"
Finally, illegal is not the same as criminal. Immigration law is administrative law, not crimininal. Undocumented immigrants are here ilegally, breaking immigration law, hence the term "illegal", but just being here without authorization is NOT a crime.
"
Mafi wrote on May 8, 2008 1:14 AM:
" JCBR, yes I "checked" the citizenship issue for you. It is called the Fourteen Amendment to the United States Constitution, I am transcribing the first paragraph for you:
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
"
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
"
soldierboy wrote on May 8, 2008 4:27 AM:
" It looks like the majority of the folks here have the right idea, but some are quite misguided. "MexAmer43" stated that we should " thank an illegal immigrant" for cheap products. Are you kidding me?? Why would I thank any criminal for their actions? I would rather thank them for driving down wages to the point that we need cheap milk and pork. "Pacerintl" stated that the children of illegals are "the future of Iowa", God help us. If wages weren't being driven down by illegals, maybe more of our young people would have decent paying jobs to keep them in Iowa. They would also have access to good summer jobs , like detasseling, that used to be widely available to local kids but are now being done by illegals . By the way, entering America improperly is a violation of the U.S. Code, federal law, and it IS a criminal act punishable by prison time........ it's just not enforced. "
proudmom1 wrote on May 8, 2008 7:06 AM:
" I dont have a problem with latinos but if any are illegal which I sure there are some and I could probably name a few, but anyways if they are they should be kicked out of the US.. There are lots of other latinos who are here legally or who were born here that believe that the illegal latinos should go back where they came from.. but yeah.. I believe thats whats really going on at NCC.. "
rhino2640 wrote on May 8, 2008 7:25 AM:
" I agree with Kraut. They should raid our town if there are that many people concerned about a raid and not going to work, etc. because of it. And then to put this article in the paper with those statements only proves it even more. Way to go lets clean up Waterloo and give the jobs to those who do have legal citizenship to be here and work! Raid the whole town! "
ICERaidReport wrote on May 8, 2008 8:11 AM:
" This is quite a unique situation. I have never heard of ICE preparing such a large space for detention of immigrants prior to a raid. Anyone interested in reading about how ICE is handling similar situations in other parts of the country, please check out my blog which is a news bulletin of ICE activity: http://raidreport.blogspot.com "
herrerafam wrote on May 8, 2008 8:21 AM:
" Hi, everybody. These are some amusing comments! For andy1, who writes, "If they can't find work they will be forced to go home and come back legally." NOT! What happens is that many people start living in one room and try to find cash work. Also, as mafi writes, the US citizen children qualify for welfare, and the group lives off of that. Taxpayers educate the children at no charge. Adult education in ESL and basic subjects is free for anyone. No one asks about immigration status at the schools. The emergency rooms at the county hospitals turn no one away. It's a difficult situation to enforce, but Chertoff is doing a fair job of at least targeting the prison population of illegal entrants. The business model of using these vulnerable people as noted by rodriguezlk to drive down wages needs to be targeted next. Chertoff is trying to require an employer response to no-match SS#, but that's in the courts. But employer firings won't deport anyone, just send the workers to the underground economy where no taxes are paid. Ha Ha!! Kraut and Rhino2640--I dare you to call ICE and ask for an investigation of a neighbor who you know doesn't have papers. ICE takes the report and never responds. "
shouldbemayor wrote on May 8, 2008 8:23 AM:
" What if the ICE and Homeland Security folks are just here for some training? You know, some classes, maybe some OJT. The Courier looks silly speculating on this and we all look silly commenting about raids...Which by the way, should they happen, would be a great thing. "
rodriguezlk wrote on May 8, 2008 9:01 AM:
" There are 3 ways one becomes a US citizen-being born on American Soil(even if both your parents are from Mars), having one parent who is a citizen even if you are born on Mars, and finally being sworn in by a federal judge after taking a test. "
rodriguezlk wrote on May 8, 2008 9:08 AM:
" Be more informed a6g--did you take government class? Google American citizenship!!!!! "
MrT wrote on May 8, 2008 9:50 AM:
" I really don't care about this subject, because it isn't informative news. Of course people who aren't here legally are going to be scared that ICE is putting up trailers in our city... DUH. But where my concern comes in, is for those children who have only ever known America. Those children of immigrants who were born in America. They are citizens, whether you agree with the law or not, it is what it is. Forcefuly up-rooting children from their homes is a tramatic experience and damaging to their developing psyche. These young people are American, under the law, and we must protect all of America's children.
While I understand the frustration with undocumented immigrants (as someone who has gone periods between jobs along with many relatives), let's be honest with ourselves. Much of our frustration is not with those immigrants, who are only doing what they can to provide for their families, the same way that any American would, but instead, our frustration should be at employers, for their willingness to drive down wages and increase profit margins. These immigrants are doing what they can to survive adn provide, adn if that means taking lower wages, then lets put ourselves in their shoes. Lets get mad at the employers, for putting profits before the American worker. Or lets get mad at an administration that has a department of labor that doesn't really care about labor. Let's not resort to a hatred of a group of people, because thats what this conversation often resorts to. We value ALL people in America, thats what the theory of America is based upon, so with that value, lets respect our Latino brothers & sisters and lets embrace the culture that they add to our society.
So again, who cares about this article, but lets open up the dialog between our communities in an effort to fulfill what out founding fathers wanted: "ONE nation, under God, In-divisible, with liberty and justice for ALL" "
While I understand the frustration with undocumented immigrants (as someone who has gone periods between jobs along with many relatives), let's be honest with ourselves. Much of our frustration is not with those immigrants, who are only doing what they can to provide for their families, the same way that any American would, but instead, our frustration should be at employers, for their willingness to drive down wages and increase profit margins. These immigrants are doing what they can to survive adn provide, adn if that means taking lower wages, then lets put ourselves in their shoes. Lets get mad at the employers, for putting profits before the American worker. Or lets get mad at an administration that has a department of labor that doesn't really care about labor. Let's not resort to a hatred of a group of people, because thats what this conversation often resorts to. We value ALL people in America, thats what the theory of America is based upon, so with that value, lets respect our Latino brothers & sisters and lets embrace the culture that they add to our society.
So again, who cares about this article, but lets open up the dialog between our communities in an effort to fulfill what out founding fathers wanted: "ONE nation, under God, In-divisible, with liberty and justice for ALL" "
mathman wrote on May 8, 2008 9:51 AM:
" I do not understand how Tyson can tell the two individuals in the article that a state-issued ID, a Social Security card, and a passport are not sufficient to prove legal status. The last time I checked, those were all acceptable documents to prove legal status on an I-9 form. I would guess that if a white person provided those same documents, Tyson wouldn't have a problem accepting them to prove legal status! "
FAQ wrote on May 8, 2008 11:25 AM:
" Sorry, but if you are not a citizen of the USA and you give birth to a baby here, the baby IS NOT a citizen by birth. It's just another misconception that certain parts of the corrupt US government lie about. They are no more citizens than the illegal parents are. Welcome ICE.....It's about time you showed up and may you stay and perform your job duties for many months. "
barbie200455 wrote on May 8, 2008 11:26 AM:
" My neighbor lost her job due to a lay off over a year ago. She's 60. She can't find a job to support herself, she doesn't qualify for any kind of aid because she is too old for this program, not old enough for that program. But when she goes to the free clinic for medical or has to go to the food stamp office, both places are filled with Mexicans. They are getting a lot more aid as illegals as she gets after being a hard working citizen all her life. So don't tell us that illegals don't qualify. Everything is in Spanish now-why is that???? "
laecuanena90 wrote on May 8, 2008 11:31 AM:
" All of you that commented before, if don’t have anything intelligent to say, don’t say it.
First of all, they are not illegal; they are undocumented, which is not a crime. Nobody is stealing anything from you people. They are actually putting the food on your tables because most of them do their taxes in the hope of an immigration reform, yes you can do taxes if you’re an “illegal.” So they, as all of you, are paying for all those government assistance that you are so worried about. By doing their taxes, they are helping YOUR ECONOMY. Without mentioning all the cheap labor they are willing to do, that also help USA’s economy.
This is one of the wealthiest countries, and also we might say that is the country of freedom. It was given to all of your ancestors, who came and practically stole this land from the Indian Americans. And you call these people criminals? Country of freedom where is obvious that white supremacy is still present, and you make it worse by commenting about a topic that you completely ignore. I love this country, and I love it because of its diversity in every aspect, which is ruined by people who are not tolerant and scare of everything that is different, thus ignorant about it, like all of you.
And in the name of all the Hispanics of Waterloo, I would like to thank Jens for this article, that lets many ignorant people know the bad time Hispanics are passing because of this. Deportation generally causes people to panic, and ends up in the separation of families.
"
First of all, they are not illegal; they are undocumented, which is not a crime. Nobody is stealing anything from you people. They are actually putting the food on your tables because most of them do their taxes in the hope of an immigration reform, yes you can do taxes if you’re an “illegal.” So they, as all of you, are paying for all those government assistance that you are so worried about. By doing their taxes, they are helping YOUR ECONOMY. Without mentioning all the cheap labor they are willing to do, that also help USA’s economy.
This is one of the wealthiest countries, and also we might say that is the country of freedom. It was given to all of your ancestors, who came and practically stole this land from the Indian Americans. And you call these people criminals? Country of freedom where is obvious that white supremacy is still present, and you make it worse by commenting about a topic that you completely ignore. I love this country, and I love it because of its diversity in every aspect, which is ruined by people who are not tolerant and scare of everything that is different, thus ignorant about it, like all of you.
And in the name of all the Hispanics of Waterloo, I would like to thank Jens for this article, that lets many ignorant people know the bad time Hispanics are passing because of this. Deportation generally causes people to panic, and ends up in the separation of families.
"
laecuanena90 wrote on May 8, 2008 11:34 AM:
" All of you that commented before, if don’t have anything intelligent to say, don’t say it.
First of all, they are not illegal; they are undocumented, which is not a crime. Nobody is stealing anything from you people. They are actually putting the food on your tables because most of them do their taxes in the hope of an immigration reform, yes you can do taxes if you’re an “illegal.” So they, as all of you, are paying for all those government assistance that you are so worried about. By doing their taxes, they are helping YOUR ECONOMY. Without mentioning all the cheap labor they are willing to do, that also help USA’s economy.
This is one of the wealthiest countries, and also we might say that is the country of freedom. It was given to all of your ancestors, who came and practically stole this land from the Indian Americans. And you call these people criminals? Country of freedom where is obvious that white supremacy is still present, and you make it worse by commenting about a topic that you completely ignore. I love this country, and I love it because of its diversity in every aspect, which is ruined by people who is not tolerant and scared of everything that is different, thus ignorant about it, like all of you
And in the name of all the Hispanics of waterloo, I would like to thank Jens for this article, that lets many ignorant people know the bad time Hispanics are passing because of this. Deportation generally causes people’s panics, and ends up in the separation of families.
"
First of all, they are not illegal; they are undocumented, which is not a crime. Nobody is stealing anything from you people. They are actually putting the food on your tables because most of them do their taxes in the hope of an immigration reform, yes you can do taxes if you’re an “illegal.” So they, as all of you, are paying for all those government assistance that you are so worried about. By doing their taxes, they are helping YOUR ECONOMY. Without mentioning all the cheap labor they are willing to do, that also help USA’s economy.
This is one of the wealthiest countries, and also we might say that is the country of freedom. It was given to all of your ancestors, who came and practically stole this land from the Indian Americans. And you call these people criminals? Country of freedom where is obvious that white supremacy is still present, and you make it worse by commenting about a topic that you completely ignore. I love this country, and I love it because of its diversity in every aspect, which is ruined by people who is not tolerant and scared of everything that is different, thus ignorant about it, like all of you
And in the name of all the Hispanics of waterloo, I would like to thank Jens for this article, that lets many ignorant people know the bad time Hispanics are passing because of this. Deportation generally causes people’s panics, and ends up in the separation of families.
"
unigrad99 wrote on May 8, 2008 12:30 PM:
" Mafi,
I would also encourage people to read the study you cited, and also identify the various wording used. For example, it is talking about all foreign-born people and makes no distinction between legal and illegal. A good example is the following comment, "Immigrants and their children assimilate into U.S. culture. For example, although 72% of first-generation Latino immigrants use Spanish as their predominant language, only 7% of the second generation are Spanish-dominant. (Source: Pew Hispanic Center/Kaiser Family Foundation)". The first sentence seems to contradict the second. I would agree the information supports that childrem of Latino immigrants attempt, but not so much on the first-generation. Another example cites the "average" positive fiscal impact of immigrants as $80,000 per immigrant, but it then goes on to say high-skilled immigrants have a $198,000 positive impact, while those with less than a high school degree have a NEGATIVE impact of $13,000/immigrant. I'd say it is quite slanted in its interpretations and leaves alot more to be explained.
I would agree several on here who have stated that those who are here legally should have nothing to fear. "
I would also encourage people to read the study you cited, and also identify the various wording used. For example, it is talking about all foreign-born people and makes no distinction between legal and illegal. A good example is the following comment, "Immigrants and their children assimilate into U.S. culture. For example, although 72% of first-generation Latino immigrants use Spanish as their predominant language, only 7% of the second generation are Spanish-dominant. (Source: Pew Hispanic Center/Kaiser Family Foundation)". The first sentence seems to contradict the second. I would agree the information supports that childrem of Latino immigrants attempt, but not so much on the first-generation. Another example cites the "average" positive fiscal impact of immigrants as $80,000 per immigrant, but it then goes on to say high-skilled immigrants have a $198,000 positive impact, while those with less than a high school degree have a NEGATIVE impact of $13,000/immigrant. I'd say it is quite slanted in its interpretations and leaves alot more to be explained.
I would agree several on here who have stated that those who are here legally should have nothing to fear. "
Kris wrote on May 8, 2008 12:35 PM:
" First of all, who says they are here to do raids? This, along with the notifications when they are going to do speed checks and compliance checks. Lets give everyone a heads up/rent a billboard to announce these things. Second and most important......illegals GO HOME!! If you want to come to our country legally, get the proper documents, get a job and support yourselves and your families. Dont expect that we owe you something and use all the resources you can get your hands on. I am so tired of going to places where there are so many people speaking other languages that I want to scream "You are in the US of A-speak English!" You want all the benefits of being an American, then learn the language. "
inlandempire70 wrote on May 8, 2008 12:41 PM:
" ALL of you in Waterloo need to do what you can to get your illegal alien prob under control while you still can. I live in Southern CA- in a city INFESTED with illegals. You are at the tip of the iceberg. The only way to clean it up is to pressure your congress rep to put pressure on the CORPOORATIONS that bring the illegals to your town. As long as there is work they WILL come. The cities that have been successful are because they conduct MASS shakedowns and fine the companies that hire them. Even a SHORT TERM solution is at least something. Our emergencies rooms are closing- schools are over crowded and our roads are jammed with illegals. And if you think they are reinvesting their wages into the economy you are WRONG!
They send 60% of their wages to their families back in Mexico and Central America. Trust me- the walmarts here wire the money out for a fee and the line goes out into the parking lot on Friday nights. Don't be stupid like CA and get a handle on things while you still can. "
They send 60% of their wages to their families back in Mexico and Central America. Trust me- the walmarts here wire the money out for a fee and the line goes out into the parking lot on Friday nights. Don't be stupid like CA and get a handle on things while you still can. "
rodriguezlk wrote on May 8, 2008 12:43 PM:
" FAQ-Cite your source??? The US, like several other countries practices the concept of Jus Sol-citizenship given to all persons born within a territory so long as they are not offspring of a foreign diplomat. But maybe we should start raiding all Labor and delivery units just in case!!! By the way lets bring back every non-citizen serving in the US military and ship them back to "where they came from"--Look at the numbers of "illegals" who are over in Iraq fighting a war that never should have been. If your gonna jabber on here do some bloody research first-or go back to your Jerry Springer re-runs!
And yes if I "pop one out on Mexican soil then my child shares dual citizenship. "
And yes if I "pop one out on Mexican soil then my child shares dual citizenship. "
gmaro wrote on May 8, 2008 12:57 PM:
" You are so right MrT ONE NATION UNDER GOD which also means to me ONE FLAG and ONE LANGUAGE. Barbie you are right on with your statement. Seems we take care of those here illegally better than we take care of those who have worked hard most of their life and lose their income because of so-called cutbacks. Otherwise known as the let's get rid of them before they can collect anything. Well said soldierboy! Businesses know illegals are here and know they are not going to demand higher wages that's why they hire them and pretend they don't know anything. If you want to be here do it legally. "
MrT wrote on May 8, 2008 1:12 PM:
" FAQ- they are citizens under the Law of the United States of America if you are born on US soil. If you don't like it, tough. "
yesecarr wrote on May 8, 2008 2:20 PM:
" I JUST WANT TO ANSWER barbie200455 JUST AN FYI JUST BECAUSE YOUR MEXICAN!! AND SPEAK SPANISH DOES NOT MEAN YOUR AN ILLEGAL AND JUST BECAUSE YOU SPEAK SPANISH MEANS YOUR MEXICAN. "
KMH714 wrote on May 8, 2008 2:39 PM:
" All the talk about Tyson hiring illegal immigrants tells you that the company knows who is legal and not. Have worked there 7 years I have met a couple of illegals that have worked at Tyson under 3-4 names. Not that they have told me themselves. If human resuources is not smart enough to do something about it the company should not be running. Most team members know that Tyson hires illegals to work because they will not complain about pain, are at work everyday, so they have a nice paycheck so they can send american money back to Mexico. "
iowacitymark wrote on May 8, 2008 4:01 PM:
" What a shame it is to see so many xenophobic nationalists here in Iowa wrapping themselves in their flags and screeching about the foreign threat in their midst. Reminds me a bit of all those wholesome German patriots who herded the Jews into cattle cars for a trip to their ancestral homelands in the east. Looks like America didn't defeat Nazism after all. "
W. Loo East wrote on May 8, 2008 5:09 PM:
" Lets not forget that the I.C.E. does more than chase illegal aliens. They work with other law enforcement to monitor and disrupt violent street gang activity and play key parts in drug arrests as well. In addition they investigate telemarketing fraud, money laundering and identity theft. (I checked out the about section on their website.) It's anyones guess why they are here. I imagine that the reason they picked the Cattle Congress Grounds will reveal itself, sometime. "
inlandempire70 wrote on May 8, 2008 5:11 PM:
" iowacitymark: comparing the Holocost to our illegal immigration problem???? Really?? The Jews broke no laws and were there legally-DO NOT compare us to Hitler. Xenophic??? I have NO Fear of LEGAL immigration. Allowing individuals who enter our country illegally and continue to live hear illegally without going thru the proper channels is what we should ALL seriously fear because they have no regard or respect for our laws. I'm supposed to be okay with that? What other laws do you think they should be allowed to break? I work with a man who immigrated here from Liberia and went about becoming a citizen the right away. I LOVE and welcome all immigrants who follow our law and respect our great country! "
syntaur wrote on May 8, 2008 5:35 PM:
" Isn't it sad to live in a era when you hear about such a story, in the back of your mind you wonder if it is the Latinos the government are planning on rounding up? And if one was to hear that a bunch of liberals or "terrorists" were suddenly to disappear... or the November elections were to be cancelled... that it wouldn't really surprise you...
I think it may be the way they, the government, is being so secret about it.
I know of one other place in the United States that a simular... "training exercise"... is taking place. I wonder how may more locations there are? "
I think it may be the way they, the government, is being so secret about it.
I know of one other place in the United States that a simular... "training exercise"... is taking place. I wonder how may more locations there are? "
syntaur wrote on May 8, 2008 5:37 PM:
" Isn't it sad to live in a era when you hear about such a story, in the back of your mind you wonder if it is the Latinos the government are planning on rounding up? And if one was to hear that a bunch of liberals or "terrorists" were suddenly to disappear... or the November elections were to be cancelled... that it wouldn't really surprise you...
I think it may be the way they, the government, is being so secret about it.
I know of one other place in the United States that a simular... "training exercise"... is taking place. I wonder how many more locations there are? "
I think it may be the way they, the government, is being so secret about it.
I know of one other place in the United States that a simular... "training exercise"... is taking place. I wonder how many more locations there are? "
lookingin wrote on May 8, 2008 6:00 PM:
" iowacitymark, quit trying to shame people who have an opinion on illegal immigration. They do not have a phobia as you assume. I'm sure that all realize that the Mexican people are good people, but the fact remains that many of them are here illegally, and being undocumented IS illegal. The influx of illegals has both postive and negative affects on this country and it does need to be addressed. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away, and by the way, if you check on history it will tell you that nazis didn't herd Jews up in cattle cars to ship them home. "
Out-of-towner wrote on May 8, 2008 6:09 PM:
" Blah, blah, blah... inlandempire70 is the winner!!! He (or she) is telling the truth!!!!!! As a former I-O-WAN, I was naive about Mexicans and immigration until we moved South. WOW >>>>> Towns (Rogers, Arkansas and others) are being taken over by the Mexicans in a few short years. It's all part of their Reclamation Plan. Google it and you will be surprised, shocked, etc...
It TRUE and it is happening NOW. "
It TRUE and it is happening NOW. "
avee wrote on May 8, 2008 8:10 PM:
" If we really have a labor shortage let’s allow employers to go to the border and register workers with the Fed then they would be responsible for that person until some future date when the individual returns home or becomes a citizen through the normal process. The employer would be required to pay a living wage, they would be required to pay for health care and decent housing, they would be required to provide English classes and when the job is done or the employee terminated they would be required to get the employee back to Mexico (home). If the employee turned out to be an excellent worker the employer could offer to bring the immediate family and register the family under the same work permit. The employer could then pay for all the same services for the family as they would for the employee. I think we would find the labor shortage to be considerably less than we are led to believe. ----------------Someone asked """Who is going detassle all that corn?""" My kids and my grandkids detassled and earned good money in a short period of time. BTW when they got home from a day of detassling they were in no mood to go out and raise cain until 2am.--- If you don't think we provide free health services to illegals check with Peoples Community Health Clinic (Federal tax $)about detassling time. "
barbie200455 wrote on May 8, 2008 10:41 PM:
" To yesecarr: I am aware of that. My point is that the illegals are using up all of the resources in our area without contributing anything back to the community. If this is untrue, they'd be alot more welcome than they are. They wouldn't be worried about the ICE being here, would they???? "
mafi wrote on May 8, 2008 10:55 PM:
" I am an immigrant, fully bilingual, have a professional degree, and I employ two U.S. citizens. I speak English when dealing with English-speaking people, but when I am out and about, shopping or at a restaurant with my mom, my sister or a friend who is also from Latin America, it would be stupid to speak English among us. I looove to speak español in public, and am too disappointed that only once have I had someone actually trying to tell me to "learn" English (my reaction was to go after that person, tell her that my English was -in all likelihood- better than hers, and suggest that she go crawl back to her trailer park). Keep in mind you monolingual fanatics, many of those you see speaking Spanish can also speak English, we just choose not to do it among us. ¡Viva el español! "
a6g wrote on May 8, 2008 11:09 PM:
" Hopefully this is going to be for a raid, and for every person staying home from Tyson or elsewhere, GOOD. Now pack up and go back to where you came from. If you are here illegally you SHOULD be scared...every second of your illegal existence. "
MAC wrote on May 9, 2008 6:36 AM:
" inlandempire70 is right. Until employers are VIGOROUSLY prosecuted and fined HEAVILY when convicted, this problem will continue. Eliminate the motive for coming here (corporations and businesses hiring illegals) and the migration will cease. The trouble is, most of these corporations make political donations to candidates who, after election, are hesitant to bite the hand that feeds them. The result is strong rhetoric against the illegals themselves. It is pathetic. "
Think wrote on May 9, 2008 8:16 AM:
" Just a guess but this could include Mason City, Postville & Cedar Rapids. I see this as a firebase. In fact all of eastern Iowa. I can dream. "
orange wrote on May 9, 2008 9:35 AM:
" It's sad and pathetic what the politicians have let this country turn into, and the unfortunate thing is there's nothing that can be done to reverse it!!!!! "
Kris wrote on May 9, 2008 9:48 AM:
" well, Mafi, tell me to crawl back to my trailer park.......what the ... is wrong with living in a trailer? So, you are not only smarter than us because you choose to speak spanish, but you are also richer? Well, I guess between my husband and I making over 80,000 a year and choose to live in a trailer makes us trash in your eyes huh? Some people...........I have yet to meet one that speaks english. "
cire wrote on May 9, 2008 10:15 AM:
" mafi, did someone here say they have a problem with people speaking both English & Spanish?....I didn't think so.
However, (for what it's worth) keep in mind that Iowa law lists English as the only "official" language and it's use should be promoted whenever possible..
IOWA SF 165
SIGNED INTO LAW, 1 MARCH 2002
Section 1. NEW SECTION. 1.18 IOWA ENGLISH LANGUAGE REAFFIRMATION.
1. The general assembly of the state of Iowa finds and declares the following:
a. The state of Iowa is comprised of individuals from different ethnic, cultural, and linguistic backgrounds. The state of Iowa encourages the assimilation of Iowans into Iowa's rich culture.
b. Throughout the history of Iowa and of the United States, the common thread binding individuals of differing backgrounds together has been the English language.
c. Among the powers reserved to each state is the power to establish the English language as the official language of the state, and otherwise to promote the English language within the state, subject to the prohibitions enumerated in the Constitution of the United States and in laws of the state.
Of course, people are allowed to speak whatever language they would like..no-one is prohibiting the use of other languages. But step into the shoes of many Americans for a second...most of our ancestors came from other countries and assimilated rather quickly. Instead of only speaking English when you "have to", how about embracing American culture & the English language as your own? After all, you are the one who made the choice to move here. "
However, (for what it's worth) keep in mind that Iowa law lists English as the only "official" language and it's use should be promoted whenever possible..
IOWA SF 165
SIGNED INTO LAW, 1 MARCH 2002
Section 1. NEW SECTION. 1.18 IOWA ENGLISH LANGUAGE REAFFIRMATION.
1. The general assembly of the state of Iowa finds and declares the following:
a. The state of Iowa is comprised of individuals from different ethnic, cultural, and linguistic backgrounds. The state of Iowa encourages the assimilation of Iowans into Iowa's rich culture.
b. Throughout the history of Iowa and of the United States, the common thread binding individuals of differing backgrounds together has been the English language.
c. Among the powers reserved to each state is the power to establish the English language as the official language of the state, and otherwise to promote the English language within the state, subject to the prohibitions enumerated in the Constitution of the United States and in laws of the state.
Of course, people are allowed to speak whatever language they would like..no-one is prohibiting the use of other languages. But step into the shoes of many Americans for a second...most of our ancestors came from other countries and assimilated rather quickly. Instead of only speaking English when you "have to", how about embracing American culture & the English language as your own? After all, you are the one who made the choice to move here. "
mafi wrote on May 9, 2008 11:36 AM:
" Cire,
Assimilating does not mean forgetting our roots and tossing aside our customs, (like our preference for food that actually has flavor, respect for our elders and loyalty to our tight-knit extended families). Assimilating does not mean leaving our beautiful and rich language behind and speaking to our own in a borrowed tongue.
I am fully assimilated as you can tell by my writing in your own language, but this country is diverse and as earlier immigrants before me, I take what I consider valuable from the existing culture to craft something of my own, without losing my language, my values and my culture and trying to pass that on to my children.
It is not true that earlier waves of immigrants assimilated quickly. Traditionally the newly arrived have lived in ethnic enclaves (Germans and Dutch in Iowa; Italians, Eastern European Jews in NY and so forth), they have read their own newspapers, shopped in ethnic groceries (particularly those who came from countries that actually had a cuisine), and used their young ones as translators. My husband tells me that his Italian grandparents NEVER learned to read or write English and spoke only a few words in that language. If you are a third or fourth generation American, you probably never experienced it, but chances are the first person to set foot here from your starved corner of Europe had less education than modern-day immigrants and never learned to speak the language well, living in his/her own little Holland or little Bavaria (Pella? Amanas?). How quickly Iowans forget where they came from! "
Assimilating does not mean forgetting our roots and tossing aside our customs, (like our preference for food that actually has flavor, respect for our elders and loyalty to our tight-knit extended families). Assimilating does not mean leaving our beautiful and rich language behind and speaking to our own in a borrowed tongue.
I am fully assimilated as you can tell by my writing in your own language, but this country is diverse and as earlier immigrants before me, I take what I consider valuable from the existing culture to craft something of my own, without losing my language, my values and my culture and trying to pass that on to my children.
It is not true that earlier waves of immigrants assimilated quickly. Traditionally the newly arrived have lived in ethnic enclaves (Germans and Dutch in Iowa; Italians, Eastern European Jews in NY and so forth), they have read their own newspapers, shopped in ethnic groceries (particularly those who came from countries that actually had a cuisine), and used their young ones as translators. My husband tells me that his Italian grandparents NEVER learned to read or write English and spoke only a few words in that language. If you are a third or fourth generation American, you probably never experienced it, but chances are the first person to set foot here from your starved corner of Europe had less education than modern-day immigrants and never learned to speak the language well, living in his/her own little Holland or little Bavaria (Pella? Amanas?). How quickly Iowans forget where they came from! "
purpleleo wrote on May 9, 2008 12:19 PM:
" I find it very intersting that laecuanena90 thinks this land was given to our white ancestors. It was TAKEN by force and many NATIVE AMERICANS were killed in the process. They were forced to live on some of the worst land in this country. Forced to speak English and killed if they praticed their native rituals. Which by the way harm no man, respect Mother Earth and honor all creatures created by " God " !! If we're are going to help anyone out it should be our Native Americans. Oh sure they get government subsedities, moldy cheese, infested baking supplies and rejected can goods (not to mention pox infected blankets). But, to really know their plight one needs only to visit the Bandlands. The poverty levels are devistating. If they had better schools the children could learn to be self-sufficient. They grown up and vote too. And before saying they have the Casinos, let's remember the article in this weeks Courier, most are owned by white corp. Americans wanting to keep the profits for themselves.
Let's not keep giving hand-outs to Illegals !! Time to head for the border and take all your multipul babies with you. Come back when you want to be here Legally and improve this land. Not just take what you can get and send your money back to Mexico so more Illegals can come here to leach off of our Governmnet !!
"
Let's not keep giving hand-outs to Illegals !! Time to head for the border and take all your multipul babies with you. Come back when you want to be here Legally and improve this land. Not just take what you can get and send your money back to Mexico so more Illegals can come here to leach off of our Governmnet !!
"
conservativeme wrote on May 9, 2008 12:20 PM:
" mafi, you are incorrect. Iowan's know where we came from, but with this ILLEGAL immigration, we are not quite sure where we are headed or if the Iowa we know will be here for our grandchildren. "
cire wrote on May 9, 2008 2:48 PM:
" my great-grandmother moved here from Germany in the 1930's, and I never heard her speak German (with the exception of maybe a few curse words from time-to-time). So I'm not that far removed from immigrants to this country either.
I'm also not sure what you meant by "tossing aside our customs, like our preference for food that actually has flavor". Are you implying that "American food" doesn't have flavor?
It boils down to one thing...it's the responsibility of those coming to the United States to learn & use English, just as it would be my responsibility to learn Swedish if I moved to Sweden.
You should not expect documents to be available in Spanish, teachers to teach your children English, or my company's phone system to allow you to press "2" to hear the menu in Spanish.
As far as the big picture is concerned, illegal immigration simply has to be stopped..it's asinine that it's been allowed to go on as long as it has.
mafi, I'm interested in hearing what your solution would be for solving the illegal immigration crisis..? "
I'm also not sure what you meant by "tossing aside our customs, like our preference for food that actually has flavor". Are you implying that "American food" doesn't have flavor?
It boils down to one thing...it's the responsibility of those coming to the United States to learn & use English, just as it would be my responsibility to learn Swedish if I moved to Sweden.
You should not expect documents to be available in Spanish, teachers to teach your children English, or my company's phone system to allow you to press "2" to hear the menu in Spanish.
As far as the big picture is concerned, illegal immigration simply has to be stopped..it's asinine that it's been allowed to go on as long as it has.
mafi, I'm interested in hearing what your solution would be for solving the illegal immigration crisis..? "
inlandempire70 wrote on May 9, 2008 5:53 PM:
" mafi: you are so typical of the illegals (but your legal I presume) who feel a an angry, raging sense of entitlement to everything in this country that legal citizens (immigrants or not) work so very hard to get. Your insults are incredible. "food with flavor?" tabasco will make any dish come alive won't it?
to get on with my point-I work at a business bank in Southern CA. My coworkers include:
(all legal immigrants) a Cuban; a Liberian; a Puerto Rican; an Egyptian; a Vietnamese and 2 Mexicans. My clients include (all legal immigrants): Asians; Latinos; Middle Easterners; and Europeans. ALL have worked hard, obtained their educations and have built their own companies and/or practices. These are the immigrants that our country can't live without. They are proud to be here, proud to speak our language and eat our food. They love America more than some natural born citizens. They are smart and focused and understand what it takes to be great.
They are NOT the mexican's that come to my desk speaking spanish and get mad at me because I don't "hablo". I have NEVER had any other immigrant other than mexican get in my face. EVER. They beg for money from my customers in the parking lot and harass me at the gas pump. I have NEVER had any other immigrant other than mexican act that way.
It is what it is. If you don't live it, breathe and see it everyday you don't get it. It is the truth. I'll send you a plane ticket down here if you don't believe me. And really- your flavorful food gives me heartburn. "
to get on with my point-I work at a business bank in Southern CA. My coworkers include:
(all legal immigrants) a Cuban; a Liberian; a Puerto Rican; an Egyptian; a Vietnamese and 2 Mexicans. My clients include (all legal immigrants): Asians; Latinos; Middle Easterners; and Europeans. ALL have worked hard, obtained their educations and have built their own companies and/or practices. These are the immigrants that our country can't live without. They are proud to be here, proud to speak our language and eat our food. They love America more than some natural born citizens. They are smart and focused and understand what it takes to be great.
They are NOT the mexican's that come to my desk speaking spanish and get mad at me because I don't "hablo". I have NEVER had any other immigrant other than mexican get in my face. EVER. They beg for money from my customers in the parking lot and harass me at the gas pump. I have NEVER had any other immigrant other than mexican act that way.
It is what it is. If you don't live it, breathe and see it everyday you don't get it. It is the truth. I'll send you a plane ticket down here if you don't believe me. And really- your flavorful food gives me heartburn. "
class of 93 wrote on May 9, 2008 8:12 PM:
" Since english is the official language of Iowa lets go back to rotary phones so that whenever I call somewhere I dont have to press 1 for english. "
packofwolves88 wrote on May 9, 2008 8:20 PM:
" After reading some of these comments, I can certainly say that I am disappointed in humanity. "
rodriguezlk wrote on May 9, 2008 10:27 PM:
" Thank you packofwolves88- Let's worry about other things that our own government has done to us! Illegal immigration is a way for the Bush Administration to take focus off Iraq(fiasco), healthcare, when Bush took office gas was a $1.35, education(No child left a dime), social security, Haliburton, civil liberties being trashed, shall I go on!!!! Wake up people!!! Clinton ruined a dress, Bush ruined a nation!!!! "
cire wrote on May 10, 2008 1:50 AM:
" rodriguezlk, I applaud your ease in attempting to distract us from the actual topic of discussion. If you hadn't noticed, we are discussing illegal immigration, not President Bush.
plus, all you did was list a bunch of liberal talking points.. does anyone actually think for themselves anymore? "
plus, all you did was list a bunch of liberal talking points.. does anyone actually think for themselves anymore? "
avee wrote on May 10, 2008 6:35 AM:
" I assume all of you that are for open borders (no borders) leave the back door of your house unlocked so when these poor people come here they can walk in your house to spend a couple years while you learn their language so they can tell you what they want for dinner each day. You should publish your address in the paper (in Spanish) so they know where to come. BTW make sure you have room for the kids and Grandpa and Grandma. Maybe a couple cousins also. "
mrsgutierrez wrote on May 10, 2008 7:03 PM:
" What's sad is the ignorance of so many people here in my own hometown! People are talking about "illegals" getting hand-outs! What hand-outs are they getting? They are not eligible for welfare of any kind, even though they pay taxes...YES MOST PAY TAXES! Except, unlike a person with legal status, they can't file their taxes or get a refund. So think of all of the billions of dollars that these so-called "criminals" we still have welfare for US citizens who need it. Are YOU going to go out into the hot fields and work 16 hours a day, in horrible working conditions,
picking the tomatoes that WE buy in the store for a few dollars a day? I don't think so. Most people who come here undocumented are looking to survive because they can't in their home country. The don't look for a "hand-out," they look for a fair chance. And to come here legally from a Latin-American country is pretty much impossible to do. Why does everyone assume that all the undocumented people are Hispanic? Why are Hispanics the only ones who are picked on and discriminated against? There are plenty of people who are undocumented who come from Asia, and Eastern Europe, but no one takes notice of that. Many ignorant people think that when they see a Hispanic, that they're automatically an "illegal Mexican." If US companies didn't outsource their factories to third world countries where there are no labor laws/regulations, and can pay people there $3/day, then maybe there wouldn't be such an influx of undocumented people coming here. Since the US is the richest country in the world, why can't we help the third world countries instead of other countries like Saudi Arabia who are already wealthy. It's a matter of "quid pro quo." How about worrying about these "Illegals" who are committing criminal activity like drug trafickking and murder- not raiding a company where people are just trying to earn a decent living and be productive members of society. "
picking the tomatoes that WE buy in the store for a few dollars a day? I don't think so. Most people who come here undocumented are looking to survive because they can't in their home country. The don't look for a "hand-out," they look for a fair chance. And to come here legally from a Latin-American country is pretty much impossible to do. Why does everyone assume that all the undocumented people are Hispanic? Why are Hispanics the only ones who are picked on and discriminated against? There are plenty of people who are undocumented who come from Asia, and Eastern Europe, but no one takes notice of that. Many ignorant people think that when they see a Hispanic, that they're automatically an "illegal Mexican." If US companies didn't outsource their factories to third world countries where there are no labor laws/regulations, and can pay people there $3/day, then maybe there wouldn't be such an influx of undocumented people coming here. Since the US is the richest country in the world, why can't we help the third world countries instead of other countries like Saudi Arabia who are already wealthy. It's a matter of "quid pro quo." How about worrying about these "Illegals" who are committing criminal activity like drug trafickking and murder- not raiding a company where people are just trying to earn a decent living and be productive members of society. "
avee wrote on May 11, 2008 8:01 AM:
" mrsgutierrez-----Many illegals pay no "income" tax as they either work for cash or if they file a W4 under a false SS # (a crime) then they will claim as many dependents as necessary to avoid any withholding. There is no verification of the number of dependents claimed. This is common knowledge at those places that are hiring illegals and done with management looking the other way. If they don’t file a tax return that is also a crime. ---------------------
If you don't think they are getting any free benefits go check out Peoples Community Health Clinic. No one is turned away because of inability to pay. Same is true for the emergency rooms at the hospitals.
Check out the food bank.
"
If you don't think they are getting any free benefits go check out Peoples Community Health Clinic. No one is turned away because of inability to pay. Same is true for the emergency rooms at the hospitals.
Check out the food bank.
"
gmaro wrote on May 11, 2008 9:35 AM:
" mrsgutierez get your head out of the sand and look around -hospitals are laying off people because they have to cut costs because they have to take care of too many who can't pay, my local food bank is emptied out because of the influx of immigrants (legal or not they are given food and medical care). Let ICE do their job and who's to say they are not here doing exactly what they said- training.
And mafi sounds to me you are a little antiAmerican, if you don't like it here why not leave and go back to your perfect world. "
And mafi sounds to me you are a little antiAmerican, if you don't like it here why not leave and go back to your perfect world. "
TampaDAve wrote on May 11, 2008 1:58 PM:
" Oh, you people are so smug in your Whiteness and Rightness. You are just like the people in Germay: when they came to get the xxx people, I didn't say anything because I am not an xxx. Everyone should read Waterloo-Dan's message and take notice. We have no more rights than the people at the bottom of the ladder, in the final analysis. And it is true that undocumented immigrants do work that no one else will do. Here in Florida, they cracked down and now fruit is rotting on the trees because no one will pick it, including people flying signs "Will Work for Food." They are not taking jobs that White People want, they are not on the public dole, they are trying to stay alive and feed their children. I wish Jesus could come and talk to you people about loving others, even if they aren't the same color skin as you. Just go ahead and give Big Brother a free hand to set up all the concentration camps they want, and go on believing they will only lock up brown people. Bwahaha, you are in for a shock this fall! "
lookingin wrote on May 11, 2008 7:51 PM:
" Here come the bible thumpers. It always amazes me how small some peoples minds are that they can't open them up to peoples genuine concerns without making someone out to be a racist or (yikes), now a nazi. They always resort to name calling instead of giving real solutions to the problems or concerns. I don't believe there is a job that any American won't do given a fair living wage, and most Americans will work for less just out of necessity. Not taking those jobs in Florida? I don't have nice enough answer to that so I'll refrain from commenting. "
hillbillytea wrote on May 11, 2008 10:03 PM:
" not all illegals came here illegally.some simply had their work visas expire and they were laxed about getting them renewed.hopfully some of those people can be processed and put back to work.its a shame to loose good help like that but quite often it does happen "
PeterH wrote on May 12, 2008 2:31 PM:
" Just in regard to the facts, when the Swift plant in Marshalltown was raided the workers were not taken to the Iowa National Guard Armorty in Fort Dodge, but rather to Camp Dodge, just outside Des Moines. You could look it up. "
50674 wrote on May 16, 2008 6:49 PM:
" Uh ...actually the United States HAS no official language ..never had. "
mrsgutierrez wrote on May 16, 2008 9:01 PM:
" Avee:
SOME undocumented immigrants may pay no "income" tax (many do), but do they pay taxes on everything else? Do they pay to Social Security, that which they'll never receive? YES! Do they pay sales tax when they purchase things from stores which stimulate our economy? YES! They still pay taxes, and the "false SS#" is often not necessarily false. Many undocumented immigrants buy these papers from other immigrants who have had legal status but have returned to their country and no longer use them. Many times, not always, they are not stolen as many tend to believe.
And as far as I'm concerned, it's not just "illegals" who use medical services and can't pay- there's many many US citizens here in Waterloo who ]cannot afford to pay for medical services. I guess we should just let disease spread and people die of preventable diseases then, because of their inability to pay.
In fact, I know many undocumented immigrants that I have worked with who won't even go to the doctor when they are sick because A. They know that they can't afford it, and B. They are scared that immigration will be called on them.
This country was built on immigrants--fleeing persecution, looking for a better life, and that is what most of these undocumented immigrants are doing. How quickly we forget that only a few hundred years ago, immigrants came and settled and took over a land that was not theirs, which are most of our ancestors.
Because of the vast influx of immigrants from all over the world, America has a rich culture- and would not be the same without them- undocumented or not. These undocumented immigrants work hard for little pay and don't complain. They don't ask for "Hand-outs"- they wouldn't get them anyway. We, as American citizens often believe that we are "too good" to do many of the jobs that undocumented immigrants do- work in the fields, etc. They are not "stealing" jobs from US citizens. I know several US citizens that prefer not to work, and prefer to "live off the government." If they didn't do these jobs, who would? Why is there such a hatred? Why can't there be some understanding? It's very un-American, in my opinion, to display such bitterness and hatred towards a group that is, for the most part, just trying to make a life better for themselves. Think about it...to come here legally from Latin America is almost impossible, and to apply costs hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and after paying that money, most often the permission is still not granted to enter legally (if they can even come up with the money earning $3/day). You're family is basically starving, and lives in "house" made of scrap metal and cardboard. What would you do? "
SOME undocumented immigrants may pay no "income" tax (many do), but do they pay taxes on everything else? Do they pay to Social Security, that which they'll never receive? YES! Do they pay sales tax when they purchase things from stores which stimulate our economy? YES! They still pay taxes, and the "false SS#" is often not necessarily false. Many undocumented immigrants buy these papers from other immigrants who have had legal status but have returned to their country and no longer use them. Many times, not always, they are not stolen as many tend to believe.
And as far as I'm concerned, it's not just "illegals" who use medical services and can't pay- there's many many US citizens here in Waterloo who ]cannot afford to pay for medical services. I guess we should just let disease spread and people die of preventable diseases then, because of their inability to pay.
In fact, I know many undocumented immigrants that I have worked with who won't even go to the doctor when they are sick because A. They know that they can't afford it, and B. They are scared that immigration will be called on them.
This country was built on immigrants--fleeing persecution, looking for a better life, and that is what most of these undocumented immigrants are doing. How quickly we forget that only a few hundred years ago, immigrants came and settled and took over a land that was not theirs, which are most of our ancestors.
Because of the vast influx of immigrants from all over the world, America has a rich culture- and would not be the same without them- undocumented or not. These undocumented immigrants work hard for little pay and don't complain. They don't ask for "Hand-outs"- they wouldn't get them anyway. We, as American citizens often believe that we are "too good" to do many of the jobs that undocumented immigrants do- work in the fields, etc. They are not "stealing" jobs from US citizens. I know several US citizens that prefer not to work, and prefer to "live off the government." If they didn't do these jobs, who would? Why is there such a hatred? Why can't there be some understanding? It's very un-American, in my opinion, to display such bitterness and hatred towards a group that is, for the most part, just trying to make a life better for themselves. Think about it...to come here legally from Latin America is almost impossible, and to apply costs hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and after paying that money, most often the permission is still not granted to enter legally (if they can even come up with the money earning $3/day). You're family is basically starving, and lives in "house" made of scrap metal and cardboard. What would you do? "
lookingin wrote on May 17, 2008 7:08 AM:
" mrsgutierrez I understand what you're saying, but from your thinking then the US should allow anyone from a government that doesn't take care of their people or who live in extreme poverty to come to the US without any regard to rules about entering, which could encompass huge masses from around the world. I don't think that makes sense to allow them to enter illegally for obvious reasons which are safety and health. I don't slight them for wanting to come, but they come because they CAN enter illegally. I don't believe that's ever been acceptable to most US citizens. Our government has looked away and neglected this problem for far too long. It would never have gotten to this had they acted sooner. Read the web sites that Brittanicus has posted. They are eye openers. "
mrsgutierrez wrote on May 17, 2008 6:41 PM:
" lookingin:
I also understand what you're saying. I think that it is necessary to secure our borders more, what I'm replying to is the people who are saying that the "illegals" are a drain on the economy; those who are targeting only Hispanic people, and forgetting about the many other ethnicities and races that are here illegally. I also think that our government, which is one of the richest countries in the world can do more to help these impoverished countries, so people don't NEED to have to come here illegally (ie., the US companies that outsource their jobs to other countries- that the government should put the same regulations and expectations on their work ethic policy down there as they do here. Perhaps allow people a more realistic chance of being able to come here legally. The people who enter the country without permission are just the surface of a deeper problem. I'm not saying that the US can solve all of the world's poverty problems, I'm saying that maybe the US can help some of the lesser developed countries instead of helping other rich countries.
I'm also saying that Hispanic community is being targeted and discriminated against. Every human being, whether or not they are here with permission or not is entitled to basic human and civil rights, and I believe that with the comments that I've seen on this blog, that there is a lot of hatred amongst our community. All I am trying to do is encourage people to have a little bit of understanding and compassion for people who are already suffering greatly, and who are being subjected to more and more persecution just because they want to be able to provide for their families. "
I also understand what you're saying. I think that it is necessary to secure our borders more, what I'm replying to is the people who are saying that the "illegals" are a drain on the economy; those who are targeting only Hispanic people, and forgetting about the many other ethnicities and races that are here illegally. I also think that our government, which is one of the richest countries in the world can do more to help these impoverished countries, so people don't NEED to have to come here illegally (ie., the US companies that outsource their jobs to other countries- that the government should put the same regulations and expectations on their work ethic policy down there as they do here. Perhaps allow people a more realistic chance of being able to come here legally. The people who enter the country without permission are just the surface of a deeper problem. I'm not saying that the US can solve all of the world's poverty problems, I'm saying that maybe the US can help some of the lesser developed countries instead of helping other rich countries.
I'm also saying that Hispanic community is being targeted and discriminated against. Every human being, whether or not they are here with permission or not is entitled to basic human and civil rights, and I believe that with the comments that I've seen on this blog, that there is a lot of hatred amongst our community. All I am trying to do is encourage people to have a little bit of understanding and compassion for people who are already suffering greatly, and who are being subjected to more and more persecution just because they want to be able to provide for their families. "
lookingin wrote on May 18, 2008 11:01 AM:
" mrsgutierrez you make some valid points. However, we differ on opinion in that I do feel that illegal immigrants are a drain on the economy. Granted they contribute and have positive impact too, but in my opinion the negative far outweights the positive. Are they bad people? Heavens no. I think that when someone blogs they often want their stand on the issue to show how strongly it is and, therefore, it sounds worse. I can only guess and hope. I think everyone knows there are other illegals than the hispanics, but the influx has been far greater because it's so easy, (Asians can't swim the ocean to enter in mass.) I'm confused by your comment that they're being discriminated against and targeted. Targeted? Probably. Don't you think that's because the influx has been huge? I don't understand the problem with that. It's always been normal to take care the bigger problem first and work on the smaller one later. Discrimination? Please explain. I don't see how they're being discriminated against since they entered illegally. I assume you believe in amnesty, and I'm not sure where I stand on that. There's too many "ifs and hows" for me to support that. "
mrsgutierrez wrote on May 19, 2008 3:22 PM:
" Lookingin:
Whether or not you believe that undocumented immigrants are a drain on our economy is a matter of opinion, and I respect all opinions. What I don't respect is the people who are blogging saying that the "Mexicans" need to go back to Mexico. First of all, not everyone who speaks Spanish is from Mexico. Right there is discrimination and stereotyping. I, myself have been subject to discrimination by Waterloo Police Officers who racially profiled me believing me to be Hispanic (I look Hispanic but am not, however, I am married to a Hispanic). This officer pulled me over and first asked me if I spoke English. I told him yes, that I was born here, and was appalled by the question. I asked him why he pulled me over. He stated that he could pull me over for whatever reason he wanted to, and continued to ask me if I have "papers to be legal here." I stated again, that I was born here in Waterloo. He then asked for my license. I am a Residential Officer in the Waterloo Correctional Facility, and I have a badge, where I also keep my license. I took out my badge wallet and he saw my badge and asked me where I worked. I told him, and without even looking at my license, he stated, "Have a nice night." Is that not discrimination? I'm not even Hispanic, imagine how Hispanics are profiled? The comments on this blog show that there is a lot of ignorance and intolerance for that which is different, and I'm just trying to share my perspective and experience.
"
Whether or not you believe that undocumented immigrants are a drain on our economy is a matter of opinion, and I respect all opinions. What I don't respect is the people who are blogging saying that the "Mexicans" need to go back to Mexico. First of all, not everyone who speaks Spanish is from Mexico. Right there is discrimination and stereotyping. I, myself have been subject to discrimination by Waterloo Police Officers who racially profiled me believing me to be Hispanic (I look Hispanic but am not, however, I am married to a Hispanic). This officer pulled me over and first asked me if I spoke English. I told him yes, that I was born here, and was appalled by the question. I asked him why he pulled me over. He stated that he could pull me over for whatever reason he wanted to, and continued to ask me if I have "papers to be legal here." I stated again, that I was born here in Waterloo. He then asked for my license. I am a Residential Officer in the Waterloo Correctional Facility, and I have a badge, where I also keep my license. I took out my badge wallet and he saw my badge and asked me where I worked. I told him, and without even looking at my license, he stated, "Have a nice night." Is that not discrimination? I'm not even Hispanic, imagine how Hispanics are profiled? The comments on this blog show that there is a lot of ignorance and intolerance for that which is different, and I'm just trying to share my perspective and experience.
"
lookingin wrote on May 19, 2008 6:01 PM:
" mrsgutierrez, I don't want any of this to sound harsh or critical, so please listen with an open mind. I am just going to comment a little on what you wrote and then I'll give you an example that I'm aware of. You are very right that not all who speak Spanish are from Mexico. We can all be educated and reminded of this. I don't think the comment is stereotyping nor discriminatory. It's not a very thought out comment. Those saying all "Mexicans" should return to Mexico is also an opinion. Therefore, you disagree with that opinion. Fair enough. I don't find anything the officer said to you discriminating. Why would you be appalled that he asked you if you spoke English if he thought you were hispanic? You yourself said you look hispanic, and with the many who don't speak English in this country I think it's a fair question for the officer to ask. We have to press 1 in order to get English on the phone. What's that say? He can pull you over for any reason he wants, but did he have a reason to? Did he give you a reason? It's always been my understanding that officers have to have cause to pull someone over. If he didn't have cause then you have every right to be upset, but that's the only reason. We have several families from Mexico that live in our town, (and they are from Mexico). They had some trouble at the local station. My x son-in-law had worked with them on a farm and knew them and knew that they understood English, but they made like they didn't to the law officers at the time of the problem, so they called him to help translate. Maybe they should have asked them if they understood English from the get-go to see what they said. "
mrsgutierrez wrote on May 20, 2008 6:38 PM:
" Lookingin:
When I asked the police officer why he pulled me over, he stated, "I can pull you over for whatever reason I want." I interpreted that to mean that he didn't have a reason to pull me over. Then, when he found out where I worked, all of a sudden there was no problem. What other reason could there be? For him to ask me if I speak English is one thing- since I look Hispanic- keeping in mind that I know many Hispanics who also speak English. But asking me, after I had already told him that I was born here in Iowa, if I had documentation to be here in the country illegally is, in my opinion discrimination and profiling! How can it not be? Facts are facts? I have also been pulled over in my own car and have been accused of stealing my own car because I looked Hispanic, and my married last name is different than my maiden name. He pulled me over, again, without giving a reason, and proceeded to search my car with another officer. Like I said, I have personally experienced discrimination from Waterloo Officers because I "look" Hispanic. My mother, who is white, was in the car when the cop pulled me over and searched my car without reason. My mother works for the Dept. of Correctios also. She was appalled as well as I was. Is it that big of a deal that you have to press #1 for English? As far as I knew, America doesn't have an official language. Granted, most people here speak English, but that doesn't mean that it's, by law, a requirement. Also, you're comment about the Mexicans in your community "acting" like they don't know English. Perhaps that is out of fear, or perhaps it's out of nervousness. I speak Spanish fluently, and when I get extremely nervous- my mind goes blank. Like I said, you're going to have your opinion, and I'm going to have mine. We both have had very different experiences, which mold these opinions, but I do not think that intolerance and hatred are going to solve anything. We're supposed to be a country which embraces diversity, but from the blogs that I've been reading, I don't see any of that. I bet that your ancestors (as well as mine) did not originate in the United States. Who are we to judge? "
When I asked the police officer why he pulled me over, he stated, "I can pull you over for whatever reason I want." I interpreted that to mean that he didn't have a reason to pull me over. Then, when he found out where I worked, all of a sudden there was no problem. What other reason could there be? For him to ask me if I speak English is one thing- since I look Hispanic- keeping in mind that I know many Hispanics who also speak English. But asking me, after I had already told him that I was born here in Iowa, if I had documentation to be here in the country illegally is, in my opinion discrimination and profiling! How can it not be? Facts are facts? I have also been pulled over in my own car and have been accused of stealing my own car because I looked Hispanic, and my married last name is different than my maiden name. He pulled me over, again, without giving a reason, and proceeded to search my car with another officer. Like I said, I have personally experienced discrimination from Waterloo Officers because I "look" Hispanic. My mother, who is white, was in the car when the cop pulled me over and searched my car without reason. My mother works for the Dept. of Correctios also. She was appalled as well as I was. Is it that big of a deal that you have to press #1 for English? As far as I knew, America doesn't have an official language. Granted, most people here speak English, but that doesn't mean that it's, by law, a requirement. Also, you're comment about the Mexicans in your community "acting" like they don't know English. Perhaps that is out of fear, or perhaps it's out of nervousness. I speak Spanish fluently, and when I get extremely nervous- my mind goes blank. Like I said, you're going to have your opinion, and I'm going to have mine. We both have had very different experiences, which mold these opinions, but I do not think that intolerance and hatred are going to solve anything. We're supposed to be a country which embraces diversity, but from the blogs that I've been reading, I don't see any of that. I bet that your ancestors (as well as mine) did not originate in the United States. Who are we to judge? "
lookingin wrote on May 20, 2008 9:32 PM:
" mrsgutierrez
In your last post it sounds more clarified. I wasn't there so your gut instinct is usually right. I also know many Hispanics that speak both Spanish and English. All the Hispanics I know are wonderful people. My reference to pressing #1 for English was to show that many Hispanics must not understand English fluently, therefore, the officer asks you whether you speak English. Trust me, the guys that made like they were not able to understand English were trying to "put one over" on the officers. I know most of these fellows and they are not horrible guys. They were being like any other human being could be given the chance. My point was that the officer that pulled you over didn't know you or whether you spoke English and probably didn't know whether to believe you. Doesn't make all Hispanics liars, makes human beings capable of lying, especially if they are breaking the law.(Not that you were). If I were an officer I most certainly wouldn't trust what anyone says just because they say so. "
In your last post it sounds more clarified. I wasn't there so your gut instinct is usually right. I also know many Hispanics that speak both Spanish and English. All the Hispanics I know are wonderful people. My reference to pressing #1 for English was to show that many Hispanics must not understand English fluently, therefore, the officer asks you whether you speak English. Trust me, the guys that made like they were not able to understand English were trying to "put one over" on the officers. I know most of these fellows and they are not horrible guys. They were being like any other human being could be given the chance. My point was that the officer that pulled you over didn't know you or whether you spoke English and probably didn't know whether to believe you. Doesn't make all Hispanics liars, makes human beings capable of lying, especially if they are breaking the law.(Not that you were). If I were an officer I most certainly wouldn't trust what anyone says just because they say so. "
mrsgutierrez wrote on May 21, 2008 3:26 PM:
" Lookingin:
I understand that human beings are capable of lying, but my point is that, unless the officer had a reason to pull me over, or if I had been in violation of some law (a reason which he never gave me), he had no right to ask my legal status. Secondly, he could have simply asked me for my driver's license then, instead of asking if I had papers to be in the country legally. I don't think that you and I are so far removed from our perspectives. I believe that we both think that undocumented community are basically good people. Yes, they broke a civil law by entering the country without permission, but they did not, however, break any criminal law. Entering the country illegally is an immigration law, therefore civil and not criminal, and many people are treating these people like hardened criminals who are murderers or sex offenders, lets say. Our prison system is filled mostly with US citizens, not undocumented immigrants. The majority of the residents in my facility are US citizens. I can't tell you the excuses that are given to me about why they don't or "can't" work. I can't tell you the hundreds of times a month that these people call the ambulance to come get them and take them to the ER (with no insurance) because they have a "headache," and no other form of transportation. These are the people who are true drains on the economy. The $400 or so that it costs to transport a resident by ambulance doesn't get paid by them, it gets paid by us- but no one complains of that? And most of these people who do this are not working, however, are ablebodied people. So, in my experience of what I have seen with US citizens who are eligible (contrary to undocumented immigrants) for government assistance, it is the US citizens that are draining our economy more than those who are undocumented. "
I understand that human beings are capable of lying, but my point is that, unless the officer had a reason to pull me over, or if I had been in violation of some law (a reason which he never gave me), he had no right to ask my legal status. Secondly, he could have simply asked me for my driver's license then, instead of asking if I had papers to be in the country legally. I don't think that you and I are so far removed from our perspectives. I believe that we both think that undocumented community are basically good people. Yes, they broke a civil law by entering the country without permission, but they did not, however, break any criminal law. Entering the country illegally is an immigration law, therefore civil and not criminal, and many people are treating these people like hardened criminals who are murderers or sex offenders, lets say. Our prison system is filled mostly with US citizens, not undocumented immigrants. The majority of the residents in my facility are US citizens. I can't tell you the excuses that are given to me about why they don't or "can't" work. I can't tell you the hundreds of times a month that these people call the ambulance to come get them and take them to the ER (with no insurance) because they have a "headache," and no other form of transportation. These are the people who are true drains on the economy. The $400 or so that it costs to transport a resident by ambulance doesn't get paid by them, it gets paid by us- but no one complains of that? And most of these people who do this are not working, however, are ablebodied people. So, in my experience of what I have seen with US citizens who are eligible (contrary to undocumented immigrants) for government assistance, it is the US citizens that are draining our economy more than those who are undocumented. "
lookingin wrote on May 21, 2008 4:28 PM:
" As a police officer trying to uphold the laws he can pretty much ask anything he wants to. Whether you answer a question truthfully or not is up to the person being asked. Since I am a citizen of the US I too may be offended by being asked that same question. Probably because I am a citizen and would wonder what's wrong with him for asking it, but I don't have a sign on my forehead for him to see. I know there are all kinds of misdeeds in a system that has run amok. I know people who call an ambulance instead of seeing a doctor when there is no emergency, and people who go to the emergency room for a headache or illness when they more than likely could wait until morning to see a doctor. Of course their insurance pays, but we all pay since those costs are passed on to other policy holders. This also is an outrage and you'll find that most people are just as outraged by the waste and cost of such things. I think we aren't so far apart on alot of things, but we do differ in our opinions of illegal immigration. "
mrsgutierrez wrote on May 21, 2008 5:48 PM:
" A police officer trying to uphold the law is fine, but a police officer pulling me over because I looked Hispanic, was indeed not upholding the law, but profiling. All he had to do was run my plates, see my name and information, and then ask for my license. That's routinely how police officers handle things when I have been pulled over, let's say for speeding. Your stance and my stance on illegal immigration are different, but I still believe that every human is entitled to their basic human and civil rights no matter where they are, and I think that they are entitled to some sort of dignity. Entering the country illegally does not make them bad people as many people on these blogs portray. As I said, there are many people from Asia, Eastern Europe, and other countries who have had visas but overextended their stay, therefore being here "illegally," but Hispanics are by far the most targeted, as you can see by the comments in previous blogs. Yes, they come here in large populations, but that doesn't make them any less "illegal" than those from Asia or Eastern Europe who have overextended their visas. Or what about people from Canada who come to work in the US everyday without permission. Are they criminals? Should we shackle their feet and house them in an animal barn lock them away? What if I were to say, let's deport all of the white people? That would be generalizing a whole lot of people. That's the same as saying, "let's round up all of the "Mexicans" and deport them. Not every Hispanic is Mexican, just like everyone with white skin is not a US citizen. If we're going to start deporting people, then make it fair, just and with some dignity- but I don't think that deportation and putting them in prison is going to solve the immigration issue do you? We need a comprehensive immigration reform that gives people alternatives to a better life other than having to sneak over the border. "
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kraut wrote on May 7, 2008 12:57 PM: