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~ADVERTISING~
Addressing racism in Iowa's legal system
By JENS MANUEL KROGSTAD, Courier Staff Writer
WATERLOO --- Community members joined a panel of legal professionals Thursday to address the disproportionate number of African Americans in Iowa's legal system.
David Goodson, founder of Social Action Inc., said exposing racism in Iowa courts, laws and police departments is the first step towards solving the problem.
"We've got to change the way we treat nonviolent offenders," he said, to a standing-room only crowd at Payne AME Church.
Rep. Deborah Berry, D-Waterloo, said those in the legal system must uphold the law, even when the law is inherently racist. She said mandatory sentencing for drug offenses force judges to lock up nonviolent offenders, many whom are black. Several judges on the panel expressed frustration over the requirements.
"You're having the rapists and murderers lumped into the same category as petty criminals and drug users," she said.
The panel, which also included correctional officers and a Waterloo Police Department captain, acknowledged racism exists in the system, and said changes must also be made at the community level.
A study by the Sentencing Project in Washington, D.C., released this summer found blacks are imprisoned at 13.6 times the white rate in Iowa, the widest disparity in the nation.
Nation of Islam Minister Michael Muhammad gave voice to the frustration in the black community when he turned to the panel and admonished them for furthering injustice.
"There has been an abuse of power," he said. "The most important part of leadership is to take responsibility for the failure for those you're responsible to lead."
District Court Judge Tom Bower said many in the legal community have been trying for years to address the issue. He cited an adult drug court program in Black Hawk County that uses strategies like positive reinforcement to rehabilitate repeat offenders. He said communities must also become more involved to address the social challenges African-American youth face.
"I don't see any reason why several of us can't step forward and be mentors," he said.
District Court Judge George Stigler proposed a more narrowly focused mentoring program that helps ensure people show up for court dates. He said offenders are more likely to be sentenced to jail time if they don't show up for their court date.
"There are too many people who set themselves on a bad course because they don't meet responsibilities," he said.
District Court Judge Steve Clarke said one of the ways to address the social ills at the heart of the problem is for more people to step forward to be foster and adoptive parents.
Most of the community leaders ultimately focused on racism as the core problem that creates the social and economic ills that lead young African Americans into the legal system.
"One of the questions I think white Americans have to deal with is, what am I doing to interrupt racism?" Goodson said.
Contact Jens Manuel Krogstad at (319) 291-1580 or jens.krogstad@wcfcourier.com.
David Goodson, founder of Social Action Inc., said exposing racism in Iowa courts, laws and police departments is the first step towards solving the problem.
"We've got to change the way we treat nonviolent offenders," he said, to a standing-room only crowd at Payne AME Church.
Rep. Deborah Berry, D-Waterloo, said those in the legal system must uphold the law, even when the law is inherently racist. She said mandatory sentencing for drug offenses force judges to lock up nonviolent offenders, many whom are black. Several judges on the panel expressed frustration over the requirements.
"You're having the rapists and murderers lumped into the same category as petty criminals and drug users," she said.
The panel, which also included correctional officers and a Waterloo Police Department captain, acknowledged racism exists in the system, and said changes must also be made at the community level.
A study by the Sentencing Project in Washington, D.C., released this summer found blacks are imprisoned at 13.6 times the white rate in Iowa, the widest disparity in the nation.
Nation of Islam Minister Michael Muhammad gave voice to the frustration in the black community when he turned to the panel and admonished them for furthering injustice.
"There has been an abuse of power," he said. "The most important part of leadership is to take responsibility for the failure for those you're responsible to lead."
District Court Judge Tom Bower said many in the legal community have been trying for years to address the issue. He cited an adult drug court program in Black Hawk County that uses strategies like positive reinforcement to rehabilitate repeat offenders. He said communities must also become more involved to address the social challenges African-American youth face.
"I don't see any reason why several of us can't step forward and be mentors," he said.
District Court Judge George Stigler proposed a more narrowly focused mentoring program that helps ensure people show up for court dates. He said offenders are more likely to be sentenced to jail time if they don't show up for their court date.
"There are too many people who set themselves on a bad course because they don't meet responsibilities," he said.
District Court Judge Steve Clarke said one of the ways to address the social ills at the heart of the problem is for more people to step forward to be foster and adoptive parents.
Most of the community leaders ultimately focused on racism as the core problem that creates the social and economic ills that lead young African Americans into the legal system.
"One of the questions I think white Americans have to deal with is, what am I doing to interrupt racism?" Goodson said.
Contact Jens Manuel Krogstad at (319) 291-1580 or jens.krogstad@wcfcourier.com.
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(return of) joe wrote on Sep 14, 2007 2:17 PM:
" olof...I'm assuming that you were there last night? Who were you? I was in attendance and what you're saying and what was actually addressed are two different things. "
jcollins wrote on Sep 14, 2007 2:51 PM:
" I think that this is the first time that I actually agree with "olof". I'd like to see how they answer that question. "
sunnydays wrote on Sep 14, 2007 6:20 PM:
" I agree with Olof in that economics plays a role in this. However, Olof must not know very many black people to assume that no one is working on those issues.
Contrary to popular belief, Most Blacks work daily, help their children with their homework, serve as active members of the community and want a better world for their families...
Black people don't want people who commit crimes to escape punishment... We want EQUAL protection under the law and we want fair and equitable sentencing...
Jena 6 prime example.
This happens especially to people who do not have the finances to secure adequate representation and advice regarding legal issues. Most are railroaded into pleading guilty rather than go to trial. Studies show that court is where disparities most occur. White kids get 'community based diversion programs' black kids get juvey.
But I have a better question for you.... Why is it that when Blacks get together to say that they will focus on the status of Black people.... white people get all scared and claim its hate and seperatism?? "
olof wrote on Sep 14, 2007 6:21 PM:
" I would think that joe was there because of his love of statistics.
As you well know, statistics prove everything, and the "sentencing project" certainly has plenty of statistics.
Problem is, they are skewed to show a certain outcome.
The common sense approach asks just what I did- because this has to start someplace.
This problem is not due to police rounding up Black males.
This problem is due to the disintergration of the Black nuclear family. Grandmothers are not a good substitute for a father.
Fathers need to be just that- in the home...
"
olof wrote on Sep 14, 2007 9:24 PM:
" to the contrary sunnydays, I know quite a few Black people. They are the ones who complain about the direction the so called Black culture is moving.
So if "most Blacks work daily....." as you say,then why the focus on what would be a small group??
The people I talk to have no problem with criminals going to jail. They are sick and tired of being victimized twice by other Blacks.
Twice? Yes, as actual crime victims,and from the perception that all Black males are gang bangers or criminals.
"
(return of) joe wrote on Sep 14, 2007 11:43 PM:
" olof...do you have some evidence to provide that the sentencing project's statistics are "skewed," or is this just a hunch? Seems to me that the only one trying to stretch facts and getting "data" to match what he wants is you. "
olof wrote on Sep 15, 2007 1:17 AM:
" right Joe, all stats are always 100% correct and above question, sorry. "
juanalvarez wrote on Sep 15, 2007 6:02 AM:
" If you break the law you go to jail, bottom line, how many hispanics are in there, A LOT, ITS NOT ABOUT RACE, ITS ABOUT BEING A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN, IF NOT YOU GO TO JAIL "
grammainiowa wrote on Sep 15, 2007 9:55 AM:
" Statistics can be adjusted. There are actually classes for this showing how it is accomplished, in case you are not aware of that.
So Olof, I agree with you regarding the stats showing what is wanted to be represented. "
olof wrote on Sep 15, 2007 10:44 AM:
" "Too many" blacks are in prison is the problem. SO lets decriminalize drugs so that they are not arrested for that crime. Too many blacks busted for selling cocaine and meth. So thats racist? As if whites are forcing them to sell?
Too "harsh" of mandatory sentences for
selling and distributing this poison, so we have to eliminate that tool.
Thats the real agenda behind the sentencing project.
Taking criminals out of prison and putting them back into the community.
If they did not do the crime, there would be no crime problem.
Quit trying to tie all of this in with social ills and racism.
Get kids in school and keep them there, make sure they understand what they are taught. That requires some absent Black parents to make a commitment too. Or is that too hard?
Having men who are men and support their families and raise their children- is that too hard?
Not letting teenage girls have babies they can't support-is that too hard?
"
blue50703 wrote on Sep 15, 2007 3:26 PM:
" I am kind of well.. no I am amazed at the sterotypes you just put in your last post "olof". So I have to question are you psrt of the solution or the problem? Do you know why so many people resort to selling drugs? Regardless of color? Did you know that there are specific drugs that have a longer sentence than others? For instance crack and cocaine, crack has a hevier punishment than cocaine. Now drugs in either shape fashion or form are bad, but is it purely coincidental that the drug more minorities tend to get their hands on carrys a stiffer sentence. i don't believe in those types of coincidences. "
sunnydays wrote on Sep 15, 2007 3:44 PM:
" Olof...
THe point is, if you DO know any black people then you KNOW that people are working on multiple levels.. the justice system is only ONE area that should be addressed. (and its not just BLACK culture that needs to be improved...its our society culture...look at the young heros of the white community Paris, Lindsey and the ilk)
AGAIN as I said in my post, people aren't saying that there should be NO arrests or sentencing...only FAir and Equal.
FUnny thing is, when black people wore the face of crack addiction, it was increase sentencing to fight a war on drugs... WHen white people emerge as the addicts its...a mental health issue. And don't be misguided enough to think that decriminalization is a 'black thing' read your research and see the variety of people who are involved.
Earlier you said, much of this was attributed to poverty. If you believe that, then surely you can see the benefit of taking someone who realized the economic benefit of peddling poison in their communities (and to the white people who drive in to 'cop'some) and taking them into a community based program to help them become...the men and women who support their families and raise their children. I think the botteom line is, it would be easier to rehabilitate a drug dealer than a murder and believe it or not they are not always one and the same.... "
(return of) joe wrote on Sep 15, 2007 11:54 PM:
" Again, olof, you are only talking in hypotheticals and prejudice. I am one who daily works with real scientific (not skewed) data on these issues. ...Could you please provide some facts that scientific data is ALWAYS skewed, or even that what you say is true? Once again, it appears that you're using your hunches again as "fact?" Bad faith, is what we call it in scientific terms. "
olof wrote on Sep 16, 2007 2:37 PM:
" well funny thing really is that I got onto the sentencing projects various sites, and they all point to the same thing--blacks are victims..regardless of the crime. So you don't think violence and drugs are related? ... Maybe the blacks need to be more discriminating in the drug of choice they sell then?
Sunnydays you are the one still making excuses because of color, I am not supporting any drug scum in any way white or black.
Oh yes, lets just make nice and make the penalties for drug use and sales the same as a parking ticket. That will solve the problem won't it? "
a6g wrote on Sep 16, 2007 8:39 PM:
" OK, so which is it; is crack a "black drug" or not?? I keep hearing that more whites use crack, then I hear about the fact that crack should have a similar sentence to cocaine because it IS a black drug. Very misleading arguments on this from each side. Once we have concluded that crack IS or IS NOT a "black drug" we can have an honest, open discussion. IF crack dealers receive "unfair punishment" for selling crack (hint, selling drugs is illegal, and when someone is committing serious felonies we should not worry about equality except for getting them ALL off the streets...), then why not switch their "products"? I mean isn't crack concocted using cocaine anyway? Why not sell cocaine then? I mean, if that is supposedly a "white drug" and the sentencing is less, might as well give it a shot... I guess what I am saying is that there are much more important things for all of America and "black America" in particular to worry about than what drugs have lighter sentences than others. Lets get the important stuff worked out or on the right track before we worry about getting a drug dealer a lighter sentence. If sentencing of whites were stiffer, I'd be ecstatic. I don't want drug dealers in my neighborhood, walking my streets, or talking to my kids; regardless of color. I say LOCK THEM ALL UP for life, but that is unrealistic. "
olof wrote on Sep 17, 2007 5:55 AM:
" Those who complain about "fair and equal treatment" in sentencing also fail to take into account past history-which would increase the length of time to be served.
A 3 (or 4, or more) time loser would and should get the max. Why didn't they learn the first time? Oh, that's society's fault, that's the government's fault-it certainly can't be their OWN fault can it? Or just maybe their "own community" let them down?
With all of the information out there on drugs now, about the consequences for using and selling, there isn't ANY excuse for doing either.
So no, I am not part of the problem.
But the clear solution is to put away those who would continue to put this garbage on the street.
"
shirley wrote on Sep 17, 2007 3:03 PM:
" i thought they made a law that 3 rd strike your out? did it not go threw?
i do not think that any drug is a certain colors drug. crack being a black drug- i hear it all the time too and i think it is just silly. i agree with you to an extent ag6. but i do believe that some drugs are less harsh than others. i do not believe that any should be used- but i do not believe that we should throw a pothead who got caught with a ounce of weed should go to prison for life. but those other drugs that a made from all those different chemicals that stuff can just screw ya all up. they need some type of special prison for drug criminals and a certain type for the killers and melestors. they all need a different kind of treatment. "
OFJohn wrote on Sep 17, 2007 3:46 PM:
" Wow. Race relations and prejudice are so complex and so tough to discuss without raising alot of back hair. I would like to say I believe the majority, if not all, of the folks on this blog are far from racist, no matter what side they seem to be coming from, but want real solutions. It's just that both sides don't want all the responsibility to be presented in a one-sided manner. All that said, I think folks on both sides are making solid points. There has been and still is an honest bias against the black community in America and in Iowa. I also believe that there have been tremendous strides made that have been embraced by the white community that have developed a much more level playing field for those in the black community that have been able to take advantage of those changes. Why only some folks in the black community have been able to is the problem to be addressed. Whether it has to do with a more secure home, better parenting, a great mentor or teacher or even just the optomistic, refuse to lose attitude of the individual. The challenge is how to change the atmosphere for those who don't have those cards in their hand as they grow up. I believe the white community needs to do a better job of integrating their support into the black community. Almost like a marketing program, I guess. Churches need to interact, white folks need to mentor and volunteer in the black community and schools when they are able. Not in a way of saying "This is how you need to do it", but more as a way of letting black youth understand that white folks really do care and want the best for them. The more we show our concern for each other and simply get to know each other, the more we begin to realize how small our differences truly are. But another truism is that as much as the white community reaches out, the black community is the one that needs to take the lead in any real change. I spent 7 months on all traditional black colleges and universities, and while I always felt welcome made some great friends, I also learned that there is just a palpable barrier that race puts up. You can do your best to look past color, and achieve that goal, but you can never truly walk in the shoes of another race. The older generations of the black community are the only ones who can lead the folks in that community. They need to communicate the truth that there are folks of other races who truly care for them and want them to have great lives. We can preach and teach and do our best to prove ourselves, but there are real differences in the cultural experiences in this world, and only the leaders in each community can initially start the process of real change in those communities. I truly believe that can happen. Especially in a community the size of Waterloo / Cedar Falls, and with the type of fine, caring folks who live there. Including the people who have enough passion to pay attention and participate in something as simple as a Courier blog. "
sunnydays wrote on Sep 17, 2007 6:05 PM:
" You operate from the assumption that only one circumstance exists when in the real world, they both operate at the same time. (1)YES, people need to stop going to jail...when you can stop white people from going, then perhaps we can stop blacks from going.
(2) YES, Blacks are disproportionately represented in teh legal system. As I said before, if a white kid all accounts being the same gets arrested for vandalism, they are released to parent(s) and a black kid is arrested for vandalism and they are entered into the juvenile justice system... that is inequity.
Its really not even worth debating with people who don't really even want to understand. What you want to hear is basically Blacks are inherently prone to crime and they should all be locked up.(without regard to economics and education)
BTW USA is ranked 2nd in the world for having the highest percentage of its population incarcerated. SO we're locking people up and its not working. So that alone is not the answer
"
olof wrote on Sep 17, 2007 8:58 PM:
" Sunnydays:
1.) when PEOPLE stop commiting crimes, then they will stop going to jail.
2.) It is bigoted to assume that a white kid gets off and a black kid gets nailed. The way a kid would get nailed would be a long list of priors. There have been numerous examples of those who've gotten slaps on the wrist over and over only to commit more serious crimes. To deny that is either sheer ignorance or blind political correctness.
BTW your stats only "prove" that people are being caught and prosecuted for crimes which is the way the system is supposed to work.
One person made the outrageous statement about men "supporting their families" by selling drugs. I suppose you think that as well?
"
a6g wrote on Sep 17, 2007 9:10 PM:
" sunnydays, your comparison of white and black kids committing the same crime and receiving different punishments is completely off base. does that happen? sure. but not EVERY black kid goes to juvi, and not EVERY white kid goes home to his parents. your argument lends itself more to a class struggle than a race struggle. if both the white and the black kid come from a solid two-parent household and have no previous arrests, they are both very likely to be released to their parents. a good black kid is just as likely as a good white kid to get a slap on the wrist, and the opposite is true most of the time as well. until folks such as yourself can get the "whitey is out to get the black man" mentality out of your pattern of thinking, things are NOT going to change. "
reality101 wrote on Sep 17, 2007 9:13 PM:
" How can any issue truly be addressed if you're cutting at limbs as opposed to starting with the roots? While our leaders are pointing out the racial disparities in the system, where is the finger pointing as to why so many young black men are turning to selling drugs to begin with? From what I see and understand, the biggest reason lies from coming from poverty, watching thier mothers struggle to raise thier children on thier own, or perhaps this overrated life style that says your worth is minimal if you don't have material things to show for. I am one who lives inside this world and the sad truth is that too many of our young black men are being abandoned and are abandoning thier own responsibilites, so with that being said, why are we making fuss to create more positive enviroments are previously mentioned. Why don't we have more mentoring progams for these men and why don't we force education, not only for the men but for the women that are bringing so many children into the world without stability, you see you can't expect to change anything when you don't start at the cause, and while we are at it. Why is the system easier on users than sellers.No one forces people to use drugs, so perhaps if stiffer penalites were enforced for users as well, maybe this will take so much business away from drug sellers. It is sad to say that many of our kids can't tell you how to get to the library but they can direct you to your drug of choice with relative ease.
Just the thought of myself receiving a much stiffer sentence because I am black would scare me enough to not take the chance of even selling and getting caught to begin with but bottom line, wrong is wrong and the penalties need to be changed and there should be one set of guidelines that should be followed regardless, much like those in place for driving without license. And to further add, if they wouldn't sell drugs, you wouldn't have this problem, educate and provide more support "
shirley wrote on Sep 17, 2007 11:44 PM:
" ya know i know these teens that one was black and one was white. they went to this guys house about a year or more ago that they had been selling crack to and they had a bb gun and robbed them.. made them go into the bedroom with their kid and took i think dvds and i am not totally sure what else i am not that close with him. but can u believe that they both did the same thing. and the cops found them riding their bikes and found the gun on the white dude but the white dude just got a year of probation while the black dude(actually 1/2 white 1/2 black_ but anyways he is still sitting i prison. he got 18 months and he is still there while the white dude has been out ever since it happened. now right there that is bogus. i know it does happen. might i add i do not know how old the white dude was but the mixed dude was only 17 almost 18. he just had a baby and has only seen her once. sad very. he did something really stupid but dont u think they should have both got the same thing?
i do believe people take this further than it adds up to tho. i think some people just take advantage of a racist situation and use it for their own advantages cuz it benefits them. i strongly believe that it is split down the middle. i do not believe that they thro innocent people in jail for no reason tho- i think sometimes the system will overdue what is necessary but not for nothing. u have to get into trouble to be in front of a judge. nor me or my fiance are in jail - he is black- cuz we do not cause problems. if we all do what is expected we will not have to worry about this problem if we r white black purple or blue! "
sunnydays wrote on Sep 18, 2007 1:58 PM:
" I am not making the assumption that the white kid gets off recog and the black kid gets juvey. THAT IS THE BASIS FOR DISPROPORTIONATE INCARCERACTION AND POLICE CONTACT RATES... THAT MAKES IT FACT. AND BY FACT I DO NOT MEAN ALLL THE TIME< BUT MORE TIMES THAN NOT>
AGAIN, I SAID THAT THIS IS ONE OF A LONG LIST OF TASKS THAT MUST BE HANDLED> I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE ONLY WAY. BUT BECAUSE THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVER NIGHT WE MUST ADDRESS THE ROOT CAUSES AS WELL AS THE SYSTEMIC INEQUITIES... And yes, to some drug dealers they do feel as though they are supporting their families... look at these posts...people don't want them on welfare and yet people don't care if the coal power plant actually brings jobs or not. So its a lose lose for people without open minds.
OLOF...OF COURSE I MEANT STOP COMMITING CRIMES...but for the short sighted allow me to say it...YES... STOP COMMITING CRIMES AND THUS STOP GOING TO JAIL....*shaking my head at you guys*
A6G..you are very ignorant...Many of the people you are referring to see the SYSTEM as its enemy and if the system continues to be dominated and represented by WHITE MALES perhaps one could draw that conclusion.
I am very educated and don't see the white man as my enemy. However, judging by your posts...you apparently see the black man as yours... "
olof wrote on Sep 18, 2007 5:03 PM:
" Sure, drug dealers pay taxes on their profits, don't they? How silly of me. What upstanding citizens they must be!
Sunnydays, please inform us of the great unwashed about all of the educational programs out there for those on welfare and for minorities.
Since you claim to be "very educated", were you the product of such an inequitable program?
And if so, why aren't more blacks taking part?
Your base premise of "equality" is false. What you want is for the government to manufacture "equality" through law.
"
sunnydays wrote on Sep 18, 2007 6:20 PM:
" OF JOHN...
Great post. It is certainly "our" problem. However, I think that it is NOT the older generation who is to lead the way... It is the 30 something's that now need to step into leadership. However, that means that the older generations should be willing to pass on the torch and the younger generations be willing and prepared to accept it. "
another viewpoint wrote on Sep 18, 2007 6:50 PM:
" Sunnydays, "very educated" people do not need to shout "use all caps" to make their point. Calling someone ignorant because they have a different opinion than you also does not suggest someone who is well educated. "
olof wrote on Sep 18, 2007 11:43 PM:
" well sunnydays if you reread the article it seems to imply that there are problems with people lacking responsibility, such as showing for court dates as noted by a BLACK judge, and a breakdown in the family-such as another judge implied with urging more foster and adoptive parents.
Racism is being used as a poor excuse for many of the problems facing Blacks that are in fact of their own making.
Dropping out of school due to racism?
Getting a teenager pregnant due to racism? NO-it's due to poor or no parenting!
You well know welfare has become a generational way of life for some.
WHY?
Because of racism?
NO- because despite the plethoria of educational opportunities for minorities and poor folks that would help to raise them OUT of poverty, they do not have the self initiative or self motivation to help themselves.
They have to be pushed to make the effort...so who does the pushing?
"
sunnydays wrote on Sep 19, 2007 10:23 AM:
" Olof, very simply put... We all do.
Another viewpoint. Thanks for YOUR opinion. Obviously my ALL CAPS WORKED, they drew attention to the portions of my message that I wanted to highlight in effort to prevent people from continuously mis stating my position on the issue.
And, since you're so obviously astute, I am certain that you could tell that I was specifically addressing someone who more than merely stated their opinion, but again misstated my position...
"until folks such as yourself can get the "whitey is out to get the black man" mentality out of your pattern of thinking, things are NOT going to change." "
a6g wrote on Sep 19, 2007 2:12 PM:
" sunnydays, the fact is that there are a lot of blacks out there that think that average whites are actually out plotting how to hold them down. that is simply not true, and until this myth can be extinguished, progress will be slow. telling me that you are educated does not make your points any more valid or mine any less; i'm educated too, but that doesn't grant me the right to label others as ignorant. my comment about blacks needing to stop worrying about "whitey" and start worrying about themselves must have really hit home and struck a nerve, and that is exactly what it was intended to do. if blacks and Americans in general would stop having children out of wedlock when they can't afford them, stop excepting drug dealers in their neighborhoods, start raising the children in two parent households, and stress the importance of an education, things WOULD get better. "
OFJohn wrote on Sep 19, 2007 3:11 PM:
" Hi sunnydays,
Sadly, I was kind of thinking of 30 - 40 year olds as the "older generations". Even sadder, I'd have to consider myself as in the "ancient generation" of 40 somethings. I couldn't agree with you more about "all of us" having the responsibility to push things in the right direction. Both the white and black communities have to overcome years of stereotyping and ingrained thought processes to make any headway. There are literally millions of African-Americans such as yourself who decided that this is indeed a country where everyone can live up to their potential. These people need to help younger black folks believe that this country does indeed have opportunities and unlimited options to kids who want to put in the effort and change their world. Also, there are even more millions of white folks who believe the same, but just go through their daily lives without expressing those thoughts, or becoming involved enough in the lives of their neighbors to help get that message across to people of other races. I firmly believe
that "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." I will do my best to not be silent when it comes to encouraging kids of all races. I hope other "ancients" of all races will do the same.
"
sunnydays wrote on Sep 19, 2007 7:43 PM:
" a6g. I only called you ignorant because you referred to me specifically as one who has a victims mentality. I didn't appreciate that.
You keep forgetting that we almost agree in that there are other areas that ALSO need to be addressed beyond the legal system.
But allow me to say this, if you still don't believe then we can agree to disagree..
I wouldn't say that 'a lot' of blacks think 'average whites' are sitting in a room plotting against them. (although there is a historical basis for that belief) I think that because we are in a white male dominated society...white males seem to PERSONIFY the SYSTEM that some people believe is not to their benefit. Look at our government, fortune 500 companies and other industries. We had one woman fortune 500 CEO and we just got Nancy Peloski and we're fawning over Hillary and Obama. If that wasn't a fact of the world, these people wouldn't be such stand outs...
OF JOHN...don't worry, we're on it...but as with anything progress takes time... "
goofy wrote on Sep 20, 2007 9:58 AM:
" Sunnydays, are u actually saying that what the three white teens did by hanging nooses in a tree is the same thing as what the six black teens did in beating a boy. Are you really saying those two things are equal and deserve the same punishment? "
shirley wrote on Sep 20, 2007 7:27 PM:
" this subject is always one that goes on forever. we must just agree to disagree and move on. just my thoughts on this! "
briqsteez wrote on Sep 21, 2007 11:01 AM:
" Black males are not the only ones selling drugs but they are the main ones being targeted while white drug dealers are still roaming the streets. The media portrays the "bad people" as the black people in the city so manpower is focused on the "bad people" which results in the disproportionate number of blacks and whites currently incarcerated. I agree drug dealing is a determent to the community ALL drug dealing mind you. It's an issue of equality; vigorous efforts should be made to rid the streets of drug dealers no matter the color of their skin. "
jp wrote on Sep 21, 2007 11:15 AM:
" Sunnydays....NO this is NOT my problem to take care of, or "have the torched passed" to me...the older generation BEFORE me got us into this, black AND white, don't just walk away and think, they will take care of it, that is why this is STILL going on, someone always thinks someone else will take care of IT. Step up previous generation, let us follow in your footsteps. And as far as white males running everything, yeah right, are you one, have you ever be passed up for a job that you where VERY qualified for and then to learn it was given to a minority? I think reverse discrimination has discriminated against most of "US". Not to fun to think if I were a minority, I would have gained a few "extra points" during an interview. "
sunnydays wrote on Sep 22, 2007 10:28 AM:
" Jp..
You can't have it both ways, you can't complain about people waiting for someone else to take care of it and then complain that someone else should step up and take care of it.
If you want those same generations to continue to speak for you, make deals in your best interest...then sit back and enjoy more of what already exists. If you truly want change, you have got to be a part of it.
Affirmative action was created for a reason and it is not without its problems; people feeling that they have been passed over for jobs and then diminishing Black peoples hard work by creating doubt about whether they are qualified for the positions that they have.
"
shirley wrote on Sep 23, 2007 9:45 AM:
" how about we compromise and we have the young and older generations get together and we can all work together?!
sounds like a plan to me! "
a6g wrote on Sep 23, 2007 11:21 AM:
" sunnydays, i think that we've found a lot of common ground; although we may disagree on a few details. i was a bit harsh in my accusation of you as a person with a victim mentality and as we all know, our emotions can get the best of us. there are other posters on these comment sections of late that are angry people, but i have a feeling that neither of us are. "
grammainiowa wrote on Sep 23, 2007 12:33 PM:
" It is ALL of our problems.
How we raise our children, grandchildren to accept someone from a different ethnic group.
How you reflect on that slightly rubs off on your children also.
We can all help by not seeing the color of someone, see them for what is inside. That is what is important. "
sunnydays wrote on Sep 23, 2007 7:39 PM:
" Agreed a6g.
Gramma..I understand what you're saying and I agree that we should judge others by their actions, but I don't mind you seeing my color. Ignoring people's ethnic and cultural identity is part of the problem. Celebrate my history and tradition and I'll celebrate yours. I want you to be proud and allow me to be proud too...Me loving me doesn't mean that I hate you. "
saa001 wrote on Sep 25, 2007 8:35 AM:
" Mandatory sentencing is designed to do away with discrimination and it does an effective job of it (i.e. you don' determine the time in jail based on factors other than what they were convicted of). The fact that blacks comprise a majority of drug cases is not racism, its just the way it is. A white suspect and a black suspect would be sentenced to the same jail term, no racism there.
The black community should be looking inwards and start working on preventing crime. The problem isn't the judicial system, it is the community that does nothing about the crimes committed in their community. "
olof wrote on Sep 25, 2007 12:33 PM:
" Saa001: This past weekend a little girl was hit by a stray bullet in a predominately black area of Minneapolis. No witnesses who would cooperate with police.
However, one said that it was "guns to blame".
How interesting-it wasn't the fault of gangs, not drug sales and drug turf, no criminal evil doing, or a drive by show of force. Nope, it was "guns to blame".
With that attitude there is no introspection.
I hope that IF the creep that pulled the trigger is caught he isn't made the victim by the victim industry. "
OFJohn wrote on Sep 25, 2007 1:44 PM:
" Dear saa001,
While I agree with you that any hope for progress with crime lies squarely in the home. I am kind of tired of the whole " our community, their community" way of thinking. While I know that there are definitely dividing lines in our country, those who truly care about the health and future of this country need to start reaching out and eliminating these invisible barriers that divide Americans into these "communities". Before you start, yes I know that the African American folks need to be a big part of any progress in this respect. But, I believe that in any situation where bridges need to be gapped, that it is the folks with the most power in a society / situation who need to be making the initial outreach and offering the olive branches. In this country, in this situation, that means the white populace. That takes courage, patience and perseverence. The Als and Jesses of the world don't help this happen as they tend to cause more animosity than they do cooperation and bridge building. But we need to keep in mind that they are all about their own self-promotion or they would be helping lead community building between all races. So we all, in all races, need to ignore these publicity hounds, again of all races, and work with our neighbors and fellow citizens. Any real progress will begin in small doses and in smaller towns and communities where efforts will be noticed, felt and believed. Waterloo/Cedar Falls is just the right size for it to work. So why don't we all think of Waterloo/Cedar Falls as "our community" with no invisible lines. Any problem is everyone's problem and we should all want to do whatever we can to correct it. "
caseyinloo wrote on Sep 27, 2007 1:48 PM:
" Statistics cannot be skewed in the ways that you all are thinking. But it is very true that there is a disproportionate number of African-Americans in prison as compared to the proportion of African-Americans that make up Iowa's population. Black Hawk County is the worst in Iowa as well. The Black Hawk County Attorney's Office is just happier sending young African-American to prison than allowing them to be rehabilitated. "
olof wrote on Sep 27, 2007 5:04 PM:
" caseyinloo are you accusing the co. attny's office of racism?
Prove it. You will also need to prove all juries are all racist as well.
Numbers alone won't do it. You need to take into account the crime, the prior record, and any aggrivating circumstances.
However, if the young black criminals would not commit the crimes they are convicted of, there wouldn't be any problem.
You and your fellow thinkers on this issue seem to imply the police are rounding up blacks for no reason.
"
Independent wrote on Sep 27, 2007 10:34 PM:
" Build a new housing complex on the south side of Waterloo for the black people so they can shop, educate at Hawkeye, and mingle with white people. Then maybe a change in attitude in this area can start. My idea of one high school would go along way toward getting white and blacks together in the Cedar Valley. Smarter people than me have been trying things since the 60's and nothing has worked? It all starts with trust and eventually developes into Lurve. "
shirley wrote on Sep 28, 2007 4:07 PM:
" There are a lot of apartment complexes on the south side very close to hawkeye and covenant. I live in one and my whole floor is black people. I am the only white person on my floor. There are black people on the south side mingling with white people. i have classes with black people at hawkeye also. I am surronded by different backgrounds and culters. I have bosnians, mexicans, airl from india. I do not see groups- i see all of us mingling and helping each other. so your comment of mingling on the south side- we do mingle than you very much! "
Independent wrote on Sep 28, 2007 10:47 PM:
" Good for you Shirley. But the problem with Waterloo is the black people live on one side of town, for the most part and the white people live on the other side. My point is the black people are still segregated and that needs to change once and for all. Bring in big Al and Jesse to get the ball rolling with big time money to build affordable housing on the other side of the river for their peeps. "
olof wrote on Sep 29, 2007 2:40 PM:
" So Mr. Independent, you are going to force "integration" on whitey. What a novel idea.
Do you have any certain numbers of blacks you want moved into the area?
And of course this will be low income subsidized housing? That would be the only reason for your friends Al and Jess to come here and cause trouble.
This scheme will really get the east side (where I live) revitalization moving.
I doubt you live in Waterloo having the ideas you do. "
Independent wrote on Sep 29, 2007 10:16 PM:
" You can call it force if you want Mr. Olof but it is really an opportunity to "desegregate" the city of Waterloo. What do you think about having only one high school Mr. Olof? I have posted this idea several times and only one person commented the next time but they just said I have their attention and wanted more details. You are correct I don't live in Waterloo, I live in MN and I am in the Cedar Valley taking care of personal familiy matters. I will be going back to MN at the end of this year, but I was born and raised in Waterloo (Central High Grad 1987). "
grammainiowa wrote on Sep 30, 2007 8:46 AM:
" I'm sorry but I do think only one or two major schools would be a good way to interact these teens.
I went to a huge high school in another state. When we graduated there was approximately a total of 600 graduates.
But you know, I can't remember of any fighting, racial slurs, etc.
Everyone got along and had all types of friends.
Graduation night four African American, two fellows and two gals were killed in a head on collision. They were all four on the honor roll and we were all devasted.
They were our friends, school buddies and "everyone" was torn apart.
"
olof wrote on Sep 30, 2007 3:42 PM:
" Desegregation! What a lie! There is no place in this area where a black family cannot live if they choose.
HOWEVER the taxpayers should not have to pay for that choice.
The east side has plenty of "opportunity" for revitalization. There are good people and good neighborhoods here.
Of course your idea of "opportunity" is forcing your agenda on others.
Perhaps Minnesota needs your talents more than we do.
"
(return of) joe wrote on Oct 1, 2007 4:18 PM:
" olof...so, are you going to say that realtors don't steer people away from certain neighborhoods? Seriously? If so, I'll have some data to show you. "
Independent wrote on Oct 1, 2007 9:48 PM:
" What is more of a drain on the taxpayer Mr. Olof, revilatization of the East side or my idea? I could sit around and crunch numbers all day long and at the end of the day the same problem would still be here. I think that 40 years is enough and your way just isn't working. Until the apples and oranges are living together in the same neighborhoods the current problems Waterloo faces will always exist. It doesn't matter if it's black, white, rich or poor every neighborhood would be better off if a little of each was living on the block. Fear is a powerfull force that has been used to control people since Machiavelli wrote his GOP handbook. This area needs more people like myself using their talents in the Cedar Valley. MN and the rest of the country have benefited from leaders like myself who are not afraid of the status quo. Until you open your heart and mind and let go of the hate and embrace common sense (for real)and try new things your Cedar Valley will struggle with the same problems for another 40 years. Still no comment from Mr. Olof about the high school idea? It must be too powerfull of an idea for ya? Wasting your taxpayer monies on a new way to look at the dirty Cedar River is not what the kids in this area need. "
Kramerica wrote on Oct 2, 2007 10:07 AM:
" Boy, Indy, you sure think highly of yourself don't you? When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in areas where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling; it is the Law of Probability. "
olof wrote on Oct 2, 2007 12:36 PM:
" FACT-People have the right to live where they want- if they can afford the house they should have it. I am not keeping anyone away form anythinng here.Thats NOT hate. It's the liberals like "Independent" who want the control over people's lives. Because they are SO smart and know so much better what we need. Thats really a form of hate. It's a way of saying we are not smart/good/tolerant enough according to their ideology and must be forced to accept change.
Forced bussing didn't work Indy. Crunch those numbers. If it's such a great idea, why all of the new schools going up and kid's staying closer to home?
If your high school idea is so great, put it to a vote of the people.
Hate Indy?? Really. I would say that you show more evidence of that with your arrogance than any of us have when we refute your ideas. "
Independent wrote on Oct 3, 2007 12:01 AM:
" Ok Mr. Olof just keep doing what Waterloo has been doing then and you can report the black stats to us yearly. I know people are only for change when they profit from it. Sacrific, courage and commitment are all part of the big picture. Living in the Cedar Valley bubble nobody wants to stick their neck out and make any changes because they fear the safe little bubble might burst. One question Mr. Olof, what ideas do you actually have that might help Waterloo's race issues? "
olof wrote on Oct 3, 2007 11:07 AM:
" Well let's build one big huge residential complex in south Waterloo and then bus in the residents.
We can round them up from the north and east sides and force them to mingle with the rest of the great unwashed. They can live no where else.
Then we can build two huge schools- one elementary and one high school and everyone will attend those and only those, and they will be spoon fed our government's ideas-but only the politicaly correct models approved by Hillary.
Then we raze all the run down areas and make green areas out of them, won't that be NICE??
We can then plow up all of the unused roads and streets and save tax money on that to put back into the residential complex that will need mass infusions of cash to keep it clean, kept up, and safe.
Yes, watertown could be a real utopia Indy. All it takes is courage and committment to get the ball moving.
Who cares what the people think anyway?
This is good for them, but they don't know it!
"
Independent wrote on Oct 3, 2007 2:14 PM:
" Mr. Olof it's been proven with twins that are raised in different social backrounds that enviroment has an enormous impact on what kind of adults they turn out to be. I'm not talking about building a huge complex and busing, that is your generations mentality. I'm talking about opportunity for black minorities to live on the other side of town in actual neighborhoods. Programs like Habitat for Humanity seem to be working and a similar program could work miracles in Waterloo after 40 years of effort. It's not a hand out it's a hand up toward ending racism and helping minorities become productive members of society, not the tax burden some end up as now. I would Lurve to give you more details but the editors have been generous enough with me lately and I don't feel like pushing my luck. "
olof wrote on Oct 3, 2007 9:23 PM:
" "Opportunity for black mionorities to to live on the other side of town in actual neighborhoods."
What is stopping them now? Is there a law saying they can't live where they wish?? No, what you are advocating is that the public pay for this.
HFH is already working on the east side, but if you lived here you'd know that. The Courier has been running very good articles on it. Two in fact in the past few months.
Fact is, since I live on the east side and you don't, I see what goes on and what doesn't.
There are good neighborhoods here, "actual neighborhoods", and now we are getting good schools too.
People should live where they are comfortable, and not according to some liberal model of a city.
Maybe Blacks and Latinos are comfortable where they are. Maybe that's where they grew up. Who are you to tell them they should move?
No, bussing was not my generation's mentality, that was a liberal program that also failed.
"
Independent wrote on Oct 5, 2007 7:42 PM:
" No, the public doesn't have to pay for it. The fact is racism is a problem in Waterloo and people on this comment section have been complaining about revitalization and more police for months. What is it Mr. Olof, is the east/north side ok or does it need help because you seem to be doing the flip, flop. I think your heart is in the right place and my idea is not a cure all, it will only work if other ideas come together to work towards the goal of ending racism in Waterloo. My idea is about opportunity not force Olof, so stop spinning my idea to fit your political agenda. "
olof wrote on Oct 6, 2007 10:08 AM:
" I live on the east side, I know what goes on there, and you don't Independent. You do not live here. Go crunch your numbers on that.
I am all for revitalization, and the new Logan Ave. project is great.
You said: "build a new housing complex on the south side for Black people".
Sounds like typical liberal social engineering, and it has failed where it has been implemented. Many famous examples of that-like Cabrini-Green in Chicago. You want to end racism? Quit supporting the sharks who make money off of it like sharpton and jackson.
BTW: have you seen photos of Jackson's house? Where do you think HE lives?
Let the people choose where they want to live, where they can AFFORD to live, and not base it on some artificial model because your social agenda calls for it.
The taxpayers here are the ones paying for the new schools, and approving where they are built.
Let them decide. "
Independent wrote on Oct 6, 2007 9:45 PM:
" OK Mr. Olof I see your point. I think Waterloo needs to blend together, instead of the current black and white sides of town. Remember what happened to Archie Bunker when Mr. Jefferson moved next door? End the fear and you end the racism. "
olof wrote on Oct 7, 2007 10:39 AM:
" If you lived here, which you don't, you'd see that the area from Fletcher to Washington and over to 9th has many black families. The area around Mitchell and Easton has many Bosnian and black families too.
But you will not "end the fear" merely by having blacks moving to other areas of town. Whites who choose not to live there around blacks will move. Then what?
Do you want some kind of quota of black/white for every neighborhood?
Or do you support a program that would give deep discounts on houses to blacks who move to white neighborhoods?
Thats been tried too, and failed.
"
shirley wrote on Oct 7, 2007 12:51 PM:
" Well like I said before I live on the west side and I am the only white person on my floor. That should say something shouldn't it? I think if you do not know what you are talking about do not talk. If you do not even live in waterloo how can you say who lives where? You can not! There are a ton of apartment buildings on the west side by hawkeye and covenant and there are many different people that live in these buildings. I personally know many "blacks, bosnians, mexicans, guams, and arab". Now how can it get more diverse than that? My building has 12 apartments- 5 have black people two have bosnians and then 4 have whites and one is mexican. My building alone is very diverse little own the other building surronding covenant. Have you ever heard of ravenwood drive? That ends that convo! "
Independent wrote on Oct 9, 2007 10:18 PM:
" Now I can clearly see why things haven't changed in the last 40 years. "
olof wrote on Oct 10, 2007 12:46 PM:
" Things have changed Indy, they just haven't changed in the way you think they should.
The east side does have many white families living with black neighbors. The thing we have in common is that we are mostly on the lower end of the economic spectrum. We aren't so divided by the racial ideas or stereotypes about "this side of the river".
All of us, black and white, are thrilled about the new schools and development coming.
We do not think we need the west side or the south side for much of anything as far as quality of life goes.
Thats just more stereotype.
"
shirley wrote on Oct 10, 2007 7:02 PM:
" and why is that? i am not part of the problem. maybe it is actually people like u that make matters worse than they really are. maybe you should look at things and be thankful for what we do have and what we do not have. u have no idea what goes on or who lives where in waterloo. i live in waterloo and i have no idea what goes on on the other side of town unless i go there a lot which i do not anymore. why must you be so negative?
me and olof just responded to your idea- it was a good thought yes but i just do not think it would work well. we have enough buildings, we are mingled, and i do not want to pay for a low income housing building. "
Independent wrote on Oct 11, 2007 10:03 AM:
" Go back and read your first comment Mr. Olof. Which is it, are things as great as you say now or are you just flip, flopping to debate me? Shirley, how many of your neighbors are on Section 8? Sounds like you actually live in a subsidized apartment building and guess who pays for that. "
olof wrote on Oct 11, 2007 12:41 PM:
" No indy, I am consistant. You are trying to change the dynamic here.
I live on the east side, I see what goes on every day.
Good and bad.
My neighbors have the same problems as everyone else. It isn't a racial thing at all.
However, the stereotypes you are injecting have been around for a long time.
Those do affect everyone here.
I said things are changing, and it is true.
Is it great? No, but at least it is moving in the right direction, the good direction, up, not down.
I don't agree with jobs going to purely minority groups, as there are many low income and poor whites in this area as well who need job training and skills too.
"
Independent wrote on Oct 11, 2007 3:06 PM:
" Olof you said what are black people doing to get into trouble and what are black people doing to interrupt that. My point is what is the Cedar Valley doing? You can spin and run but you can't hide. "
shirley wrote on Oct 11, 2007 3:27 PM:
" actually no i do not live in a subsidized apartment building. i do not know how may are on sec 8 cuz it is not my business to go around asking how my neighbors pay their rent. why does that matter? if they are on sec 8 they are still mingling. isnt that what you want is for minorities to mingle. we are mingled dude get off it already! "
shirley wrote on Oct 11, 2007 3:32 PM:
" what even makes you say that about my building? WHy does it sound like i live in a subsidized housing? because i am surrounded my minorities? czu i am the only white person on my floor? isn't the only apartment place that cuts ur rent crestview? i guess if there are more i do not even know about them.
i feel as though you are a very judgmental person who loves to argue. sometimes you need to look at what others say and go with it because you are not always right. i have come to find the bigger person is the one who can say, oh really i did not know that thanks for telling me. try it u might like it! "
igottone wrote on Oct 13, 2007 8:08 AM:
" You guy over just kill me. If you been watching the news these past weeks. You see a disturbing trend. If you read between the lines, for example blacks in the news stories. You see nothing positive. MARIAN JONES, MICHEAL VICK, JENA 6, ALL WHITE JURY ACQUITS GUARDS AND NURSE FOR MURDER OF BLACK YOUTH, IMUS AND SO ON... There is nothing positive happening. It’s like a media lynching to me. In the old days, a black is accused of rape; you take him or her out and hang them. The family packs the picnic baskets, lays out a blanket for the kids to sit on and you watch them hangem high. After that you burn the body, then tie it to the back of a truck, then drag it though the streets. Ahhh.. Nostalgic for the good ole days. Then lets hangem in the media. Grab the family together around the tube and watchem do this weekly. Michael Vick Kills dogs, Lets give him life. But done in a Florida boot camp. They beat to death (on video mind you) a black youth. Even as this child lay dying on the ground they continued to beat his lifeless body (dragem though the streets). Black people are not as dumb as you think. Justice is not the equal for black, no way. Deal an oz of Crack, go to jail for life. Deal an oz of meth or coke, go to club med. There is a great hatred for blacks that show though even in you own media. You over analyze this fact. You put perfume on a pig I guess. Al Sharpton is planning a march on Washington. I missed Jena, but I will be in Washington. Rev Al likes to say Jack Crow (Jim Crow's Nephew) if alive and thriving. I know there are good white people out there, who are apart of the human family. But there are those who are so rotted with hate. The put our kill and put our children in prisons. That’s way we are going to Washington. Please join us. "
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olof wrote on Sep 14, 2007 12:48 PM: